Mr. Paine.

I told the FBI the description or the suggestion of a rifle as the object brought together these loose pieces or loose concepts on the offset bulk which was the butt end, and the pipe, the 30-inch pipe I drew in the picture, so it made sense. The picture jelled when the rifle was suggested as an object.

Mr. Liebeler.

And so you concluded that it was likely that there was, in fact, a rifle in the package?

Mr. Paine.

Yes; I thought that was so.

Mr. Liebeler.

I show you Commission Exhibit 364, which is a replica of a paper sack or package which was found in the School Book Depository, after the assassination. I point out to you that Commission 364 is merely a replica of the actual sack that was found. The actual sack that was found is Commission Exhibit 142, and it has now been discolored because it has been treated by the FBI for fingerprints.

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

But there is a part of the package that has not been treated, and I ask you if that part of 142 that has not been treated is similar to Commission Exhibit 364 as far as color and texture are concerned. I want you to examine both of these pieces of paper in any event.

Mr. Paine.

Well, it looks to me as if 364 is a more usual kind of paper, the difference is pretty slight.

Mr. Liebeler.

You do not notice a difference between the two papers, however?

Mr. Paine.

Yes; is seems to me that is unusually crisp; yes, I would say there is a difference.

Mr. Liebeler.

And you note that the difference is, 142 is more crisp than 364?

Mr. Paine.

Yes. It seems to me this is the kind of paper, it seems to me this is more common.

Mr. Liebeler.

Referring to 364?

Mr. Paine.

364, yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

And you think that is a more commonly observed type of paper?

Mr. Paine.

Yes; that is an unusual paper. You don't find paper bags made of that.

Mr. Liebeler.

Referring to 142. Now, examine after examining both 142 and 364, did you have any paper of that type as far as you know in your garage or at your home in Irving?

Mr. Paine.

Well, most of the things that are paper have been added to the garage since I moved out, so I am not very familiar with them. We stored some rugs in, I think, in polyethylene, but I am not sure all of them were in polyethylene, and there were some curtain rods or something like that which are still there. I don't know how they came.

Mr. Liebeler.

What kind of curtain rods?

Mr. Paine.

These expanding rods that are----

Mr. Liebeler.

And you have no idea where they came from?

Mr. Paine.

Let's see, no, those came down from--I think those were in the house, I guess they weren't bought. I think Ruth took them down because the children were allergic to something, and she was taking them down, took down the curtains, and left only shades. Bought shades, I guess, she bought curtain shades to go up, new shades. That is a question, well, of course, paper could have been--I don't remember any particular, I didn't have any rolls of this kind of paper or a supply of it, wrapping paper.

Mr. Liebeler.

Let's go back to the curtain rods for just a minute. You say they were in the house at the time in Irving when you purchased the house.

Mr. Paine.

Yes, curtain rods came to my mind recently because they are junk that I try to keep propped up on the shelves or above the work bench, and I think they were in our house and there were curtains on them and she took the curtains down to get rid of the fabric that might be holding dust and put up instead some new curtains, new window shades in the bedrooms.

Mr. Liebeler.

Approximately when did she do that, do you remember?

Mr. Paine.

You will have to ask Ruth herself. She put down a new floor,