Mr. Liebeler.

This is what----

Mr. Paine.

I will say it again. I think Ruth reported at that time or this is a recollection I have of a report that Ruth made and I think it was at that time, that Marina said she couldn't identify this rifle. She knew that Oswald had a rifle, and she knew that it was in a package wrapped in the blanket in the garage, but that she had only seen it accidentally when she had discovered what it was accidentally when she had looked in the corner of the package and saw the butt end of a rifle but she didn't like rifles, made her nervous or something to that effect so she didn't look at the whole rifle.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Ruth tell you anything that Marina Oswald said about the presence or absence of a telescopic sight on the rifle at that interview with the Dallas police?

Mr. Paine.

I don't remember anything that she my have said about that.

Mr. Libeler.

But you are quite clear that your wife told you that Marina had said that she could not identify the rifle that was shown to her as being the rifle that was owned by Oswald?

Mr. Paine.

That is right.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now, I want to draw your attention specifically to a sling or a device that serves the purpose of sling on this rifle, which is Commission Exhibit 139, and ask you if you have ever seen anything like that before?

Mr. Paine.

I am taking your question to mean did I see it on the rifle, a sling on the rifle I saw that was shown to Marina? I don't think I can truthfully remember.

Mr. Liebeler.

I also want you to consider whether you have ever seen a device----

Mr. Paine.

No; I have never seen a sling built like that.

Mr. Liebeler.

Have you ever seen any device that looks like this at all whether it was designed for a rifle or for any other purpose? Do you have any idea what this might be?

Mr. Paine.

No; I don't recognize it. I have never seen it.

Mr. Liebeler.

You don't remember ever having seen anything like this around your own house or garage in Irving?

Mr. Paine.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now, we have here the parts of a rifle which is similar to the Commission Exhibit 139, and I will lay these on the blanket, and I will ask the reporter to indicate on the record that the counterpart rifle has been identified by FBI No. C-250. I want to ask you, Mr. Paine, to try to wrap this in the package, the broken down rifle and see if that works out any better or any worse than the attempt we made to wrap the complete rifle.

Mr. Paine.

I guess all that happened was I lifted up the thing in the same fashion. I don't think that is going to help the problem. It makes the package a little bit shorter but that other package--I wouldn't have got the sense of pipe.

Mr. Liebeler.

The witness indicates that because of the stock and the rifle barrel are separate when the rifle is broken down, it seems natural, does it not, Mr. Paine, to place the barrel and action of the rifle directly over the top of the stock when wrapping it this way?

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

If you do that, you would not have the sense of grasping the muzzle of the rifle or of a pipe when you picked up the package?

Mr. Paine.

And this, putting the barrel below the stock, doesn't leave, offset the package in the way that gave me the problem with the folding shovel there. The symmetrical shovel if I wrapped that in some fashion Also it mustn't rattle. He is going to have to tie it firmly with string not to have it as monolithic or solid as it had been. The barrel, I must have just felt the barrel, I felt a pipe, and the barrel had to be sticking out beyond the stock.

Mr. Liebeler.

You think that because the barrel of the rifle had to be sticking out behind the stock and because when the rifle is placed in the package in two different pieces, it is difficult to tie it tightly enough to keep it rattling and you would infer that the rifle was put together when it was the package in your garage, assuming that there was a rifle in the package in the garage? Did you ever tell the FBI that you were sure in the light of recent events that you were sure it was a rifle in the package?