Mr. Liebeler.

When you say it is quite a lot like it you grasped the "A" end rifle or the muzzle of the rifle, is that correct?

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Are we saying now that its thickness is not as you remember the package in your garage or the same width?

Mr. Paine.

Well, most likely this end down here is perhaps, the butt end of the rifle.

Mr. Liebeler.

The "B" end?

Mr. Paine.

As I have it wrapped is a little bit too full.

Mr. Liebeler.

And you think that appears to be thicker----

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Than the package that was in your garage?

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

And as far as the middle is concerned, you say that is what, not as thick nor not as wide?

Mr. Paine.

Yes; somehow it should be a little wider, or a little fuller.

Mr. Liebeler.

It was a package which wasn't quite so tapering?

Mr. Paine.

Quite so tapered.

Mr. Liebeler.

Is that approximately the length of the package that you remember in your garage?

Mr. Paine.

Yes; I think that is good, I grabbed it in some way or another, I don't know what he did with this end.

Mr. Liebeler.

Referring to the "A"?

Mr. Paine.

There was a string, there were two strings on it.

Mr. Liebeler.

When you estimated the length of the package before, would you have estimated it with the flap of the blanket that is now on the "A" end folded over or extended a little bit as it happens to be in this particular package?

Mr. Paine.

I don't think it was--I think the package is still all right if you fold it over, and I would not, the length I was estimating was the kind of length that I would grab there.

Mr. Liebeler.

So you think that the length would be more appropriate if you folded this flap over here at "A"?

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Would you measure the length of that package and tell us what it is?

Mr. Paine.

That is 41 inches.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now, after going through the process that we have gone through here, of trying to wrap this rifle in this blanket, do you think that the package that you saw in your garage could have been a package containing a rifle similar to the one we have here?

Mr. Paine.

Yes; I think so. This has the right weight and solidness.

Mr. Liebeler.

What did you estimate, did you ever estimate, the weight of that package?

Mr. Paine.

No; I don't think I did.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you ever tell the FBI approximately how much you thought it weighed?

Mr. Paine.

Oh, I may have said 7 or 8 pounds. But that was all after the fact. I mean I didn't do it at the time.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you ever discuss with the FBI the question of whether or not the object in the package that you saw, let's assume for the moment that it was a rifle, did you ever discuss with the FBI whether the rifle could have had a telescopic sight mounted on it or not?

Mr. Paine.

I don't remember whether I discussed that with the FBI. I haven't thought much about it. I didn't feel in the area of the package where the sight is. In my memory of the tubes, I did picture too more than one tube.

Mr. Liebeler.

You did picture more than one tube----

Mr. Paine.

I didn't picture it anywhere. I assumed there was going to be there was more than one tube. I hadn't placed it in any picture therefore that it was----

Mr. Liebeler.

When you say----

Mr. Paine.

I think I assumed that, I think, because this line along the top of the package was not straight enough to be the tube I have drawn there. I