Mr. Ray.

I am sure we did; now, I don't really recall. We discussed the whole durned thing with the Harrises and I am sure that that came into the conversation but right now, I don't remember exactly when and how it came about, you know.

Mr. Liebeler.

Well, during this conversation with the Harrises was there anymore conversation about Oswald's possibility of being a Russian agent?

Mr. Ray.

That subject always comes up and I am sure it did then.

Mr. Liebeler.

Can you tell us the best of your recollection what was said about it?

Mr. Ray.

No; I cannot because I just don't remember.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you remember whether there was any consensus or agreement as to whether Oswald probably was or probably was not a Russian agent?

Mr. Ray.

Well, actually I don't think that the Harrises think he was a Russian agent.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did they tell you that they did not think he was; how did you get that opinion?

Mr. Ray.

If they had told me that they thought he was a Russian agent I would have remembered it. Do you know what I mean?

Mr. Liebeler.

Yes; and you don't have any recollection of them ever telling you that they thought he was?
(Mr. Davis returns to the hearing.)

Mr. Ray.

No, no.

Mr. Liebeler.

Or telling you any reasons why they thought he might be?

Mr. Ray.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you form an opinion of this question as to whether or not he was a Russian agent or might be?

Mr. Ray.

Just from what little I know about it and the conversation that we have been over, I think he needed psychiatric treatments or something. think he was just a damn nut like George said. Of course, you know a lot of times that might be the kind of man that they would want, you know, for a Russian agent.

Mr. Liebeler.

That is just----

Mr. Ray.

He might have been smarter than we thought or smarter than the people that knew him thought; I don't know.

Mr. Liebeler.

That is just your own thought on it?

Mr. Ray.

That is my own thoughts on it, see.

Mr. Davis.

Have you all--I might inject here have you all gone over the point--did you ever discuss with your wife or the Mellers or any of these other people that it was strange about them being able to come out of Russia so easily? It was strange about him being able to move about in Russia so easily? Was it with all of them the consensus that it was unusual; were they somewhat amazed?

Mr. Ray.

I don't know whether they were or not but I was amazed and my wife was, too, that he went over there and left this country and denounced his citizenship and then a couple of years later or longer---how long was he over there? Anyway, they let him----

Mr. Davis.

Going on 3 years.

Mr. Ray.

Come back and bring his wife with him. That looked kind of ridiculous to me.

Mr. Liebeler.

And that question was discussed in your meeting in the Meller's house and subsequently discussed between you and your wife, wasn't it?

Mr. Ray.

Yes.

Mr. Davis.

Let me ask you this: This group at the Ford's place where the Russian-born would tend to get together occasionally, has there been very frequent--I mean, have you and your wife gone---I believe this was the first time?

Mr. Ray.

This was the first time we ever.

Mr. Davis.

Did they mention about this having happened fairly frequently before? Do you know how often they had been meeting in Dallas?

Mr. Ray.

It seems like now they kind of get together, you know, somewhere around New Year's--Christmas or New Year's; something like an annual affair for them to get together.

Mr. Davis.

Did you know--were there any others in this group or did you