Mr. Davis.

have any occasion to hear from any others that had a similar story like the Oswalds where they had found it that easy to go and come or go out of Russia?

Mr. Ray.

No, no; see, most of these people are, the way I get it, were Russian descent or else they were like they had married a Russian over there or something of that nature, you see. I mean it wasn't everybody there wasn't Russian but there was some Russian connection with most of them.

Mr. Liebeler.

But you heard of no other examples where people had come out of Russia as easily as Oswald had; is that correct?

Mr. Ray.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

You know or did you hear of it?

Mr. Ray.

I did not hear.

Mr. Davis.

Has your wife or you or have you all heard of anyone since the time he came out where it has been easier for people to come and go? I believe your wife mentioned she thought it would be easier to contact her niece if conditions were easing up to that degree. Has this proved to be?

Mr. Ray.

I don't know; 2 or 3 years ago she tried to call her niece on the telephone and tried 2 or 3 days and finally made the connection and the niece said, "Hello," and the line was out like that and she finally gave up.

Mr. Davis.

In other words, to your knowledge you have seen no evidence it has been made easier to communicate back and forth?

Mr. Ray.

No; fact of the business, my wife's mother had been dead a couple years before we even knew it.

Mr. Davis.

How long has this been you received that information?

Mr. Ray.

I think she died in 1953; I know it was a couple years gone by when my wife found out about it.

Mr. Liebeler.

Was your wife's mother living in Stalingrad when she died, do you know?

Mr. Ray.

I don't know. She was, I believe, in Arzamas; I am not sure that's where she died but that's near Stalingrad, some place near Stalingrad and that's where at least part of my wife's upbringing, you know, took place, in Arzamas.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you think now that you have told us about all you know or all you remember about your contact with Oswald and the discussion that you had about him? If there is anything you want to add at this point, go right ahead.

Mr. Ray.

I think we pretty well covered it. I hope you have.

Mr. Liebeler.

We want to thank you very much, Mr. Ray, for coming down here and I think you have been helpful and I appreciate it very much.

Mr. Ray.

Well, like I said before, I went to the FBI voluntarily with what information that I had. Frankly, I didn't know anything about the guy except what I have told you but I did have the names and addresses of some of these people that knew him and that's why I went to the FBI, because of that. They might contact these people and find out more about it.

Mr. Liebeler.

I think they have talked to most of them.

Mr. Ray.

I am sure they have.

Mr. Liebeler.

Thank you very much.

Samuel B. Ballen

Testimony of Samuel B. Ballen

The testimony of Samuel B. Ballen was taken at 2:20 p.m., on March 24, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex. by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. Liebeler.

Would you raise your right hand to be sworn, Mr. Ballen?

Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, in the testimony you are about to give?

Mr. Ballen.

I do.

Mr. Liebeler.

My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I believe Mr. Rankin mentioned