(Testimony of Max E. Clark)
Mr. Liebeler.
Did your wife have the feeling that was one of the reasons why she married Oswald?
Mr. Clark.
My wife had the impression she thought it was something new and strange and it was something to look forward to so she was--seemed to be as much interested in leaving Russia as staying there.
Mr. Liebeler.
Now, did Oswald tell you what prompted him to leave the Soviet Union and return to the United States?
Mr. Clark.
Yes; he told me that he had finally made up his mind that he would never get any place in the Soviet Union and that he was disappointed because it was not like Karl Marx or was not true Communism, in his words, and that he thought it was just as bad as a democracy and he said he wanted to leave there because he just felt there was no hope for him there and he would never be able to get ahead or make his mark so he decided the best bet for both he and Marina was to leave so he made application to leave.
Mr. Liebeler.
Do you remember him specifically using the words "make his mark" or is that just an expression of yours?
Mr. Clark.
That is my expression but my general impression was he wanted to become famous or infamous; that seemed to be his whole life ambition was to become somebody and he just seemed to have the idea that he was made for something else than what be was doing or what particular circumstances he was in.
Mr. Liebeler.
You mentioned previously that he did not try to hide the fact that he was a defector and had gone to Russia and you gave the impression to me in your testimony that he called attention to this fact and you said, if I recall it, he would say "Well, you know who I am" when you met him. Would you think this would be an example of what you just spoke of?
Mr. Clark.
Yes; he didn't want to be among the common people; he wanted to stand out. He wanted everybody to know he was the defector.
Mr. Liebeler.
And he called attention to that fact to make himself stand out even though it might not have been a wise thing to call to peoples' attention?
Mr. Clark.
Yes; I thought it was very stupid of him but he seemed to think it made him somebody.
Mr. Liebeler.
Can you think of any other examples of behavior on Oswald's part?
Mr. Clark.
Well, he stated while he was in Russia he didn't--he was completely disgruntled by the fact they only made him a common sheet metal worker; that he thought since he was a defector and former Marine Corpsman that he would be given special attention and the fact that he was quite proud of the fact that he did rate a better apartment than the average sheet metal worker. He was quite proud of the few accomplishments he had made and he wanted to impress upon me that he read very much and how much he had read.
Mr. Liebeler.
What did he tell you about that?
Mr. Clark.
Oh, he said he read all the time and that he read everything he could about communism, about Karl Marx and that he felt that it was much better than participating in sports. I tried to see if he was interested in sports and he wasn't.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he tell you he was a member of any Communist or Marxist organizations?
Mr. Clark.
No; he didn't. We didn't get into any phase of organizations. He was more or less discussing his particular life in Russia and what it was like and I was interested in how he got back and why he decided to come back.
Mr. Liebeler.
Did he indicate that he had any difficulty in obtaining permission to return to the United States?
Mr. Clark.
Well, I was quite surprised as to the ease in which he and Marina and the baby had gotten permission to come back and I asked him "How did you work that?" He said "Well, we just went down and I made application and she was my wife and the child and told them I wanted to go back to the United States. When I secured the passage" he said, "they okayed it." Said "We left." He didn't seem to think it was unusual. He said that he just happened to ask at the right place is what he indicated to me; said "Maybe these other people hadn't hit at the right time or hadn't approached the right person."
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