Mr. Liebeler.

Is your father a native of Germany?

Mr. Wulf.

Hamburg.

Mr. Liebeler.

And he had been involved in some political activities with or opposed to the Communists?

Mr. Wulf.

Not that I know of. What I mean, he came back from Germany following the war, 1919-20, when it was all upheaval. The Democratic Party was fighting the Communist wing and all. He remembered that and he just--well, as most Germans, a lot of Germans, do, they just don't like Communists.

Mr. Liebeler.

Can you remember anything about the details of your first meeting with Lee Oswald?

Mr. Wulf.

Very little. If I remember correctly, the main thing was that he asked--we talked about astronomy, and I drew from that, from the conversation, that he knew very little about astronomy, and it struck me that he wanted to join the group, because I expressed to him at the time that anyone with a little knowledge of astronomy was hampered in the group and mostly everybody in the group knew astronomy and we were not very much interested in teaching some fledgling all this data we had already gone through over the years, and he would actually be hampered in belonging to the group, and I actually discouraged him from joining the group for that reason. That is all I can remember of the first contact, because it was kind of late, it was probably 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning.

Mr. Liebeler.

This was at a meeting of the association?

Mr. Wulf.

No; this was at my home. McBride had brought him to my house. It must have been 10 o'clock at night or 11 o'clock at night, something like that, and we got into a conversation on astronomy in general and just a general topical conversation as far as I can remember. It is somewhat hard to remember, you know, after all these years.

Mr. Liebeler.

There wasn't any discussion of politics or economics at that time?

Mr. Wulf.

Not at that time; no.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now can you remember anything else about the second meeting with Lee Oswald that you haven't already told us?

Mr. Wulf.

Not specifically. All I can repeat is that we discussed communism in general and that Oswald showed himself to be a self-made, Communist. I don't think anybody got to him, if you want to put it that way. He just learned it on his own. At that time I knew very little about communism, and he was just--actually militant on the idea, and I can repeat he expressed his belief that he could be a good Communist, he could help the Communist Party out, if he could find the Communist Party to join it, and at that time he expressed that he couldn't and----

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he indicate in any way that he had actually tried to find a Communist organization?

Mr. Wulf.

Definitely. That is one thing that made me associate the name Oswald with this particular person, that he definitely was looking for a Communist Party to join and he was very disgusted because he couldn't----

Mr. Liebeler.

Couldn't find one?

Mr. Wulf.

Right.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know whether Oswald ever discussed matters such as this with McBride?

Mr. Wulf.

Now this would be hearsay. Yes; I believe he had. McBride and I had discussed Oswald a few times between the second visit when we threw him out of the house or asked him to leave and his subsequent leaving for Dallas. I continually tried to get McBride to stop associating with Oswald, and he did actually, as far as I know, except for, you know, working hours.

Mr. Liebeler.

And McBride told you that Oswald had also discussed communism with him?

Mr. Wulf.

Oh, yes, yes; that he discussed it constantly when they were on the job and, you know, delivering dentures, and in their social association. It might be of importance to point out that both boys struck me as lonely boys. McBride was working at that time he had quit school and was working and going to a correspondence school, and I think they tended to associate because