Mr. Wulf.

of that reason, because they were just plain lonely, not knowing too many people.

Mr. Liebeler.

This was true, in your opinion, both of Oswald and McBride? Is that correct?

Mr. Wulf.

On this particular point, yes; that they were both--well, for one thing, I think that would lead a boy to get the type of job that they held at the time. I think most of the boys who held that job were that type of boy who were fighting education, except for McBride--he wasn't fighting education, because he was fighting the need for more money. You know, a young boy like that, his family was quite large and not of very great income, and I think this made Oswald and McBride associate probably with each other, but I do know that he told me after this second visit that--we discussed Oswald, and I discussed Oswald specifically as a security risk. The reason why I was knowledgeable on this was that my father was in the Merchant Marine and on a Navy Reserve ship that did require some security clearance, and I was quite conscious of it, and also during the war, because we were German and I was quite conscious of security matters and all.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know whether McBride ever expressed any interest in communism or ever expressed any interest in Communist organizations?

Mr. Wulf.

Not really; no, no. As far as I know, definitely not. He was strong-willed, but never, as far as I know, ever expressed really any belief in communism.

Mr. Liebeler.

(Exhibiting photograph to witness) I want to show you two pictures which have previously been marked "Pizzo Exhibits 453-A and 453-B."

Mr. Wulf.

Right.

Mr. Liebeler.

I ask you if you recognize any of the individuals in those pictures?

Mr. Wulf.

Well, yes; Oswald marked "1" on the top picture, "Pizzo 453-B," and, of course, Oswald again marked with the "X" in green on "Pizzo 453-A."

Mr. Liebeler.

You recognize that as Oswald?

Mr. Wulf.

Yes. That is one of the things. I saw these films on TV and I subsequently saw them at the station. That is Oswald, as far as I can associate.

Mr. Liebeler.

When you say "these films," you are inferring that these pictures that I have shown you are still photos taken out of----

Mr. Wulf.

Yes. These are 16 mm. prints--I can tell by the grain--and they are either 16 mm. or 32 mm., probably 16 mm. prints, and these are the ones, as far as I know, that WDSU had. I don't believe that is what you want though. That is the only one I can associate on there. I do not associate the other man marked----

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you identify this man as Oswald based on your observation of him at the times you have mentioned, and not from having seen his pictures at other places in the newspaper?

Mr. Wulf.

No; I base that picture on--when I first saw those films originally, when it was originally shown on TV, I had a slight inkling that it was the same person, as far as I know. I mean, like I said, it was many years ago, it was---oh, 8 years ago, 8 or 9 years ago. He was younger, he was a little bit heavier then, in the face especially, but he seems to me to be the same person.

Mr. Liebeler.

And that identification on your part is reinforced by the logical steps that----

Mr. Wulf.

Right, the logical association. Yes; I admit this.

Mr. Liebeler.

And that logical association is the association that we have already described throughout this record?

Mr. Wulf.

Right, right; and also the time factor when he was in New Orleans, the association with Pfisterer's Laboratory, and that I know for a fact that in October of that year or early in the winter of that year that he did move to Dallas, because McBride told me that his mother and he had moved to Dallas. Also I knew a little bit about him. McBride had discussed with me a little of his family situation. I had asked him about it because of his attitudes and such.

Mr. Liebeler.

How do you mean "his family situation"? You mean his mother?