Mr. Ball.

You don't have to if you don't want to. In other words, but you may if you want to.

Mr. Applin.

I can sign it. If I sign it then you won't have any trouble with it, will you?

Mr. Ball.

Well, no.

Mr. Applin.

Well, then, I will sign it for you then.

Mr. Ball.

Okay, fine, that is all, Mr. Applin.

Mr. Applin.

But, there is one thing puzzling me.

Mr. Ball.

What is that?

Mr. Applin.

And I don't even know if it has any bearing on the case, but there was one guy sitting in the back row right there where I was standing at, and I said to him, I said, "Buddy, you'd better move. There is a gun." And he says--just sat there. He was just back like this. Just like this. Just watching.

Mr. Ball.

Just watching the show?

Mr. Applin.

No; I don't think he could have seen the show. Just sitting just like this, just looking at me.

Mr. Ball.

Did you know the man?

Mr. Applin.

No; I didn't.

Mr. Ball.

Ever seen him since?

Mr. Applin.

No, sir; didn't. I tapped him on the shoulder and said, "Buddy, you'd better move," and----

Mr. Ball.

Were you scared?

Mr. Applin.

Well, when I seen the gun I was.

Mr. Ball.

Did you tell the police officer about this man?

Mr. Applin.

No, sir; at the time, I didn't think about it, but I did tell--I didn't even think about it when I went before the Secret Service man, but I did tell one of the FBI men about it.

Mr. Ball.

Okay. I guess that is all, Mr. Applin. Thank you very much.

Mr. Applin.

All right.

-------------------------------------
Ray Hawkins

Testimony of Ray Hawkins

The testimony of Ray Hawkins was taken at 9:50 a.m., on April 3, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. Ball.

Will you raise your hand and take the oath, please?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Hawkins.

I do.

Mr. Ball.

Will you state your name, please?

Mr. Hawkins.

Ray Hawkins.

Mr. Ball.

And your address, where do you live now?

Mr. Hawkins.

7319 Cortland as of today. I am moving today.

Mr. Ball.

What is your business or occupation?

Mr. Hawkins.

I am with the Dallas Police Department. I am an accident investigator.

Mr. Ball.

How long have you been with the Dallas Police Department?

Mr. Hawkins.

It will be 11 years in June.

Mr. Ball.

Tell me something about yourself--where you were born and your education and what you have done?
Mr. HAWKINS, I was born in Dallas at Parkland Hospital. I attended the Dallas schools except for 2 years when I lived in Denison and I served 3 years and 4 months in the Coast Guard. I worked at the post office after getting out of the service and then I worked for Dallas Power & Light before coming to the police department some 11 years ago. I have been in the traffic division 8