Mr. Ball.

Was it out of the carton?

Mr. Truly.

The carton was open, I believe, and I saw it. I don't recall picking it up or taking it out of the carton, but I could see it lying in the bottom part of the carton.

Mr. Ball.

And you did take the large rifle out?

Mr. Truly.

And raised it to my shoulder and go through the motion of it, but not cocking it---just looking at it.

Mr. Ball.

Who else was there besides you and Mr. Caster?

Mr. Truly.

Well, the only person I can recall being there was Mr. Shelley.

Mr. Ball.

And what is his position with the Texas School Book Depository?

Mr. Truly.

He is manager of the miscellaneous department.

Mr. Ball.

Was this in the open warehouse?

Mr. Truly.

Yes; right at the front. Mr. Caster had placed the cartons on the counter near the front door and that's where the rifles were when I them, and I picked one up out of the cartons.

Mr. Ball.

And were they employees of the Texas School Book company on the first floor at that time?

Mr. Truly.

Yes; they were---as I recall the time that the boys had ably gone back to work and could have been walking around before they went in the shipping department.

Mr. Ball.

That would have been about what time of the day?

Mr. Truly.

I'd say around 1 o'clock--very close to it. It could have a little after or a little before. The boys go back to lunch at 12:45, so I'm not too clear.

Mr. Ball.

What happened to these two rifles, Mr. Truly, that Mr. Caster got during the noon hour?

Mr. Truly.

They were placed back in the carton and Mr. Caster carried them out of the lobby door with him. That's the last I saw them.

Mr. Ball.

Did you ever see them again?

Mr. Truly.

Never--never.

Mr. Ball.

Did you ever see from that day until Friday, November 22, did you ever see those guns in the School Book Depository Building?

Mr. Truly.

No, sir; I never did.

Mr. Ball.

Now, you recall that in your testimony before the Commission you told them that at some time after the shooting, you advised Captain Fritz of the name of Lee Oswald and his address in Irving?

Mr. Truly.

Yes, I did.

Mr. Ball.

And in order to place the time of it, was it before or after the rifle had been found on the sixth floor?

Mr. Truly.

I wouldn't know. I think it must have been around the rifle was found, because I was not on the sixth floor at that time, but when told--let's go back a few minutes--pardon me--I told Chief Lumpkin a good many minutes after we came down from the roof and he went ahead and gave some orders to two or three policemen surrounding him and then said, "Let's go up and tell Captain Fritz."

Mr. Ball.

Now, what did you tell Chief Lumpkin when you came down from the roof of the building?

Mr. Truly.

When I noticed this boy was missing, I told Chief Lumpkin that "We have a man here that's missing." I said, "It my not mean anything, but he isn't here." I first called down to the other warehouse and had Mr. Akin pull the application of the boy so I could get--quickly get his address in Irving and his general description, so I could be more accurate than I would be.

Mr. Ball.

Was he the only man missing?

Mr. Truly.

The only one I noticed at that time. Now, I think there was one or two more, possibly Charles Givens, but I had seen him out in front walking up the street just before the firing of the gun.

Mr. Ball.

But walking which way?

Mr. Truly.

The last time I saw him, he was walking across Houston Street, east on Elm.

Mr. Ball.

Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?

Mr. Truly.

No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them. With no