Mr. Carroll.

one each side of him had him by his arms, but I did not see anyone holding his mouth or trying to keep his mouth shut.

Mr. Ball.

On the way down to the police station, did anyone in the car ask Oswald if he had shot the President?

Mr. Carroll.

I don't think----I don't think they asked him if he shot the President. I don't recall asking him if he shot the President. I think most of the conversation was about Tippit at that time.

Mr. Ball.

What do you remember as to that conversation about Tippit at the time?

Mr. Carroll.

Like he said he hadn't done anything except, well, he said, "I had a pistol, and that's all I've done just carry a pistol."

Mr. Ball.

Did any one officer state to Oswald that he had killed Tippit?

Mr. Carroll.

I don't recall him just coming out openly and saying, "You killed him," or anything like that. Of course, questions were being asked. I don't remember now who was asking them then, but I was driving the car and I was trying to get him from out there down here as fast as we could.

Mr. Ball.

After you took the pistol, what did you do with it?

Mr. Carroll.

The pistol?

Mr. Ball.

Yes.

Mr. Carroll.

After I took the pistol, I stuck it in my belt immediately. Then, after we got into the car and pulled out from the theater over there, I gave it to Jerry Hill, Sgt. Jerry Hill.

Mr. Ball.

And he was sitting in the front seat?

Mr. Carroll.

In the front seat right beside me and in the middle, I think Paul Bentley was sitting on the right side and Jerry was sitting there.

Mr. Ball.

And you went down to the police station?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

What did you do when you got there?

Mr. Carroll.

When we got down in the basement and brought Oswald up, I was in front with everyone else surrounding him and we walked directly from the car to the elevator, got on the elevator and went up to the third floor to the homicide and robbery office and took him right into the homicide and robbery office and took him into one of our interrogation rooms, where we released him to the homicide and robbery office.

Mr. Ball.

Whom did you release him to?

Mr. Carroll.

I don't recall which one of the officers it was----there were several standing around there, but they would just take him and hand him to one particular officer. We just put him in the room and they more or less come in and we would back off.

Mr. Ball.

Where did you go?

Mr. Carroll.

I went into the police personnel office.

Mr. Ball.

Who went in there with you?

Mr. Carroll.

There was Jerry Hill, Ray Hawkins, McDonald, Hutson, Bentley, Lyons, and myself. Oh, by the way, Lyons was in the car with us also when we came from the theatre to the police department. I don't remember whether he was sitting in the front or back seat, though, but he did come down with us.
Lyons had sprained his ankle and Paul Bentley also had sprained his ankle, and shortly after we went into the police personnel office Lyons and Bentley left and went to Parkland to have their legs checked and taken care of.

Mr. Ball.

Had you looked at the pistol to see if it was loaded before you got to the personnel office?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir; when I gave it to Jerry Hill, he unloaded it.

Mr. Ball.

He unloaded it there in the car?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And were you able to see that?

Mr. Carroll.

Wait Just a minute I know he checked the cylinder and I don't recall whether he actually unloaded it at the time or whether he waited to unload it downtown, but I believe he unloaded it there at the car.

Mr. Ball.

Anyway, you know it was unloaded in your presence?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes; and I saw the bullets.

Mr. Ball.

It was unloaded in your presence?