Mr. Carroll.

No, sir; I didn't see that.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see anybody strike him?

Mr. Carroll.

I didn't see anybody strike him---it's possible that someone did, but I didn't see it because I was busy just, trying to get him.

Mr. Ball.

Did you grab some part of Oswald?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir; I grabbed him.

Mr. Ball.

Where?

Mr. Carroll.

It was below his shoulders, I think I grabbed him by his arm, trying to get one arm behind him or something.
I mean, it all happened so fast----as far as me sitting down and detailing it--- I believe it was his right arm.

Mr. Ball.

Was Oswald saying anything during this struggle?

Mr. Carroll.

Not that you could understand, you know; he was making sounds like normally they will do when you are engaged in some kind of a vigorous scuffle or something like that.

Mr. Ball.

What happened then after that?

Mr. Carroll.

Well, after we got the handcuffs on him----it was McDonald and Jerry Hill, Ray Hawkins and myself, and I believe there was----I think it was Hutson----we started out of the theatre and we took him out through the main lobby to our car, which was parked right in front where we had left it----where Lyons and I pulled up, and we put him in our car in the back seat and I was driving and Jerry Hill was riding next to me and somewhere after this deal, someway or other----I don't know exactly when it was----Paul Bentley had joined the crowd, and he got into the car in the right-front seat and then Oswald and Hutson, I believe, were in the back seat, and we left there and drove to the police station.

Mr. Ball.

After Oswald had been handcuffed, did he say anything?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir; as we were bringing him out of the theatre, he hollered that he was going to protest this police brutality. I believe those were his words----the latter part----"Protest the police brutality" were his exact words. The rest of it was what he had done and that he hadn't done nothing and stuff like that.

Mr. Ball.

Did he say he hadn't done anything?

Mr. Carroll.

The best I remember that was it----after we had him in the car. We were coming down to the station and he said that he hadn't done anything and he said, "I did have a pistol and I know that that's wrong, but I haven't done anything." That's the best I recall of what he said.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see any marks on Oswald's face?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes----there was one, I believe it was on the left----right eye, I can't recall which one it was----I know he had a mark up here, somewhere up here, I believe it was over his left eye I'm not real sure.

Mr. Ball.

Where was Oswald the first time you saw the mark over his eye?

Mr. Carroll.

The first time I remember was after we got him in the car. Of course, I wasn't paying too much attention to the marks or anything right there, we was trying to get him subdued.

Mr. Ball.

As he came out of the theatre, was he shouting in a loud voice or speaking softly?

Mr. Carroll.

Well, when we came out the door, it was rather difficult because there was quite a crowd there outside the theatre and it was pretty noisy and several people were hollering, you know----"Kill him," or "Let us have him, and we'll kill him." It was rather noisy, and after we come out of the theatre----I couldn't hear, you know, if he said anything I couldn't actually hear it.

Mr. Ball.

Did you shut Oswald up any way----did you do anything to keep his mouth shut?

Mr. Carroll.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

A witness testified yesterday---he said that as Oswald came out of the theatre, that there were two men on each side of him and one man behind him that had his arm underneath his chin so as to tilt his head back and close his mouth; do you remember anything like that?

Mr. Carroll.

I don't remember anything like that. I was in front----when we came out of the theatre, I was directly in front of Oswald, and I say "directly"----just almost right in front of him and there were two people, I know,