Mr. Carroll.

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Ball.

And how many bullets were there in the cylinder?

Mr. Carroll.

Just----the cylinder was full----six.

Mr. Ball.

Six bullets?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir. Yes; I believe it was full.

Mr. Ball.

Was McDonald there at that time?

Mr. Carroll.

I don't recall whether he was right there at that moment or not.

Mr. Ball.

Did you examine these bullets?

Mr. Carroll.

I looked at them, yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see anything unusual about any one of them?

Mr. Carroll.

Not----just at a glance. No, sir; they just looked like bullets.

Mr. Ball.

Did you examine them more carefully at a later time?

Mr. Carroll.

Someone made mention that one of the caps, you know, had a small indent on it, and I looked at it and I could see what looked to me like a hammer might have fallen on it.

Mr. Ball.

On the firing pin?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes----the firing pin looked like where the firing pin might have fallen on the cap.

Mr. Ball.

It looked like the firing pin had fallen on the cap?

Mr. Carroll.

That's right.

Mr. Ball.

And did you see that with your naked eye or did you need a glass?

Mr. Carroll.

Well, when I looked at it, it looked to me like it was just a real light indent.

Mr. Ball.

That was without a glass?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

Did you look at it as you were there in the personnel department?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Was McDonald there that day?

Mr. Carroll.

I'm sure he was----I don't actually recall him sitting there. He was there most of the time.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see McDonald make a mark on the gun?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes; I saw him make a mark.

Mr. Ball.

When was this done?

Mr. Carroll.

It was up in the personnel police office.

Mr. Ball.

At this meeting that you were just describing?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes; when we were all in there together.

Mr. Ball.

And tell me briefly who was present when you saw McDonald make the mark on the gun?

Mr. Carroll.

Well, let's see----there was myself, Mack, I think Ray Hawkins was there, and I believe Hutson was there, and I believe Bentley and Lyons had already gone out to have their feet checked, and I don't recall whether Captain Westbrook was in there at the time or not. There were so many people----I would have to kind of explain that----I know it sounds vague, but there were so many people in and out of there and there were about no less than anywhere from half a dozen to a dozen newspaper reporters in and out and they were bringing in mikes and it was just a big mess of confusion. You couldn't Just sit down and detail this thing and say this man was at this particular spot at this time. It was so jumbled up there.

Mr. Ball.

Whom did you give the gun to finally?

Mr. Carroll.

After I gave it to-Jerry Hill----that was the last time I had possession of it----possession of the gun.

Mr. Ball.

And did you know who took possession of the bullets?

Mr. Carroll.

I don't recall, sir. I don't recall even seeing the gun or the bullets turned over to anyone by Hill.

Mr. Ball.

But you know in the personnel department after you had delivered Oswald to the homicide squadron, you saw the gun and six bullets?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

With this group of officers?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And you examined them?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes.