Mr. Ball.

And you don't have anything from which you can refresh your memory, I suppose?

Mr. Carroll.

No, Sir; not as to that.

Mr. Ball.

You didn't make a note of it?

Mr. Carroll.

It was just strictly a telephone conversation----no, sir.

Mr. Ball.

At any rate, when you looked at the .balcony, did you see anyone who fitted this vague description that had been given you over the telephone by the dispatcher?

Mr. Carroll.

Not that I thought fit it.

Mr. Ball.

What did you do then?

Mr. Carroll.

Well, I started down the stairs and was going back down to the lower floor when I heard someone holler something----I believe it was "Here he is," or something like that. I mean, it was a loud holler, you could tell it wasn't just someone talking, and I started running, and Lyons fell----he sprained his ankle and I started running and I came up to the right of Oswald. I came up to the right and Sergeant Hill to the left, and then Ray Hawkins was in the aisle behind him-----he come up in the aisle behind from the left.

Mr. Ball.

You came from the left aisle, did you, down the row of seats?

Mr. Carroll.

No, sir; facing the screen, I came from the right aisle and then come up on Oswald's right.

Mr. Ball.

Who came from Oswald's left, facing the screen?

Mr. Carroll.

Jerry Hill----Sgt. Jerry Hill.

Mr. Ball.

And then, who came from behind?

Mr. Carroll.

Ray Hawkins.

Mr. Ball.

Where were you when you heard the sound "I've got him"?

Mr. Carroll.

Just coming off of the stairs from the balcony.

Mr. Ball.

And you ran to the orchestra entrance did you----to the aisle?

Mr. Carroll.

To the aisle from the lobby----you come downstairs into the lower lobby and the aisles lead off the lower lobby, and I come through the lobby and he was sitting rather close, I don't know exactly which row of seats it was, but it was back close to the back of the theatre.

Mr. Ball.

And how many seats in from the right aisle, as you faced the screen?

Mr. Carroll.

It was approximately----close to the center of the second bunch of seats.

Mr. Ball.

What did you see when you came into the entrance to the aisle?

Mr. Carroll.

I saw standing up at the time Oswald was standing up there at that time. Several of us were converging at the same time upon him.

Mr. Ball.

Where was McDonald?

Mr. Carroll.

He was on Oswald's, let me see, the first time I think I saw Nick was, I believe he was on Oswald's right side.

Mr. Ball.

Were they struggling?

Mr. Carroll.

Everyone was struggling with him----yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

I mean, were Oswald and McDonald struggling together?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir; and then when I got up close enough, I saw a pistol pointing at me so I reached and grabbed the pistol and jerked the pistol away and stuck it in my belt, and then I grabbed Oswald.

Mr. Ball.

Who had hold of that pistol at that time?

Mr. Carroll.

I don't -know, sir. I just saw the pistol pointing at me and I grabbed it and jerked it away from whoever had it and that's all, and by that time then the handcuffs were put on Oswald.

Mr. Ball.

Who put them on him?

Mr. Carroll.

I'm not sure who actually put the handcuffs on----I think it was Ray Hawkins.

Mr. Ball.

Put them on from behind?

Mr. Carroll.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Did----

Mr. Carroll.

They were behind him.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see anybody strike Oswald with his fist?

Mr. Carroll.

No, sir; I did not.

Mr. Ball.

We had one witness testify yesterday that he saw a man with a shotgun strike Oswald in the back with the butt of the gun; did you see that?