Mr. Sims.

Ellis Carl Brazel.

Mr. Ball.

Who was he?

Mr. Sims.

He was a city prisoner.

Mr. Ball.

Do you know what he was charged with?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I didn't.

Mr. Ball.

Do you know his address?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Do you know what happened to him?

Mr. Sims.

I believe he's in the penitentiary.

Mr. Ball.

Brazel is in the penitentiary?

Mr. Sims.

I believe so--I'm not positive.

Mr. Ball.

Who was No. 4?

Mr. Sims.

No. 4 was Don Ables.

Mr. Ball.

That's the jail clerk?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Do you remember how these men were dressed?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I don't, I don't remember how they were dressed.

Mr. Ball.

Did they have coats on?

Mr. Sims.

I don't remember if they had coats on or not.

Mr. Ball.

Were they all handcuffed?

Mr. Sims.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

Together?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Who conducted this showup?

Mr. Sims.

I don't remember who actually had the suspects to talk or who was out in front.

Mr. Ball.

You were on the stage side?

Mr. Sims.

Still on the stage side; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And did someone from the audience side conduct the showup and ask the questions?

Mr. Sims.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

Did Oswald answer the questions?

Mr. Sims.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

Was he dressed differently than the other three at that time?

Mr. Sims.

Well, he was dressed differently but I don't know--how differently he was dressed.

Mr. Ball.

What did he have on?

Mr. Sims.

He still had on the same clothes he was arrested in, so far as I know.

Mr. Ball.

In all three showups he had on the same clothes you described before?

Mr. Sims.

I believe he did.

Mr. Ball.

Here is Commission No. 150, is that the shirt he had on?

Mr. Sims.

Yes; that's the color shirt he had on.

Mr. Ball.

And then he had on a T-shirt?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Is that the shirt he had on?

Mr. Sims.

Well---one that color--yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, in this showup, did you know any of the witnesses that were in the audience side?

Mr. Sims.

Well, I knew about them, but I didn't know who was out there no, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Did you talk to them?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Did you ever take a witness' statement from any of the witnesses at either of the three showups?

Mr. Sims.

Never did----

Mr. Ball.

After that showup, what did you do?

Mr. Sims.

Well, we took him back up to Captain Fritz' office.

Mr. Ball.

About what time was this?

Mr. Sims.

7:55.

Mr. Ball.

And who was there at that time?