Mr. Sims.

The FBI agents and Secret Service agents talked to Oswald some more.

Mr. Ball.

What were their names?

Mr. Sims.

I don't know their names.

Mr. Ball.

You didn't record the names of the Secret Service officers?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, do you remember how long this interrogation of Oswald took place?

Mr. Sims.

Well, sir, we took him back to the second showup at 6:20, so that would be a matter of 2 hours. Now, whether he was in Captain Fritz' office all this time or in the interrogation room some of the time or Captain Fritz' office all the time, I don't remember.

Mr. Ball.

Now, at this second interrogation at Captain Fritz' office beginning at 4:20, was Oswald handcuffed?

Mr. Sims.

Well, now, I can't tell you--I don't remember if he were handcuffed or not.

Mr. Ball.

Did you make any notes of what was said at that time?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I never did make any notes of any of the interrogation.

Mr. Ball.

Do you remember anything that was said at 4:20?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I couldn't.

Mr. Ball.

Do you have any memory at all?

Mr. Sims.

No.

Mr. Ball.

Could you make any kind of an attempt to testify to what you heard there?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I couldn't say for sure what was said or what he told Captain Fritz or the agents either.

Mr. Ball.

Did you ask any questions?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; the only time I would talk to him would be when Captain Fritz would be out of the office and then Boyd and I, or whoever was in the office with him would talk to him.

Mr. Ball.

But at this time when the Secret Service and the FBI were in Captain Fritz' office, did you ask any questions at that time?

Mr. Sims.

No.

Mr. Ball.

Did anyone--any Secret Service man or any FBI man ask him questions at that time?

Mr. Sims.

Yes; they asked him questions.

Mr. Ball.

Did you know those men?

Mr. Sims.

Well, I know a good many of them here--I didn't have their names--I don't remember who it was.

Mr. Ball.

You don't remember who was in there at the time?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, at 6:20 there was another showup, was there?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And where was Oswald before you took him to that showup?

Mr. Sims.

He would be there in Captain Fritz' office there in the city hall.

Mr. Ball.

And you took him where?

Mr. Sims.

Back down to the same stage--on the stage there.

Mr. Ball.

Who was in this second showup?

Mr. Sims.

The same officers and the jail clerk that was with him on the first one.

Mr. Ball.

Mention their names again.

Mr. Sims.

All right, the second showup was at 6:20, approximately, and there was W. E. Perry, police officer, Richard Clark, police department, and Don Ables, jail civilian clerk.

Mr. Ball.

Were these men handcuffed at this time?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir; they were handcuffed.

Mr. Ball.

Were they dressed the same?

Mr. Sims.

I believe so; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Were they dressed differently than Oswald?

Mr. Sims.

Yes; I know they didn't have the color of clothes on or things like that.

Mr. Ball.

Did they have ties on?