Mr. Holland.

period. I guess if you could count them about a hundred foottracks in that little spot, and also mud upon the bumper of that station wagon.

Mr. Stern.

This was a car back--parked behind the picket fence? Well, why don't you put the Number "5" approximately where that car would have been.

Mr. Holland.

If we could call this the arcade [indicating]---

Mr. Stern.

All right.
Mr. HOLLAND. And one, two, three, I think it would have been just about here [indicating].

Mr. Stern.

All right.

Mr. Morrison.

That is Elm Street. It would be behind the fence, wouldn't it?

Mr. Holland.

Well, I have got the fence running up here, and this car would be back in there [indicating]. This is the trees out here, which would--and that is approximately the same location as---the car and the trees that I saw the smoke would probably be the same location.

Mr. Stern.

All right. And this was a station wagon?

Mr. Holland.

Now, the reason I didn't think so much about that at the time, was because there was so many people out there, and there was law enforcement officers and I thought, well, if there is anything to that they would pick that up, or notice it, but it looks like someone had been standing there for a long time, because it was muddy.

Mr. Stern.

Tracks you saw in the mud?

Mr. HOLLAND. It was muddy, and you could have if you could have counted them, I imagine it would have been a hundred tracks just in that one location. It was just----

Mr. Stern.

And then you saw some mud on the bumper?

Mr. Holland.

Mud on the bumper in two spots.

Mr. Stern.

As if someone had cleaned his foot, or---

Mr. Holland.

Well, as if someone had cleaned their foot, or stood up on the bumper to see over the fence.

Mr. Stern.

I see.

Mr. HOLLAND. Because, you couldn't very well see over it standing down in the mud, or standing on the ground, and to get a better view you could----

Mr. Stern.

Was there anything else you noticed about this station wagon?

Mr. Holland.

No.

Mr. Stern.

Do you recall the----

Mr. Holland.

They searched all the cars in that location.

Mr. Stern.

Did this occur to you----

Mr. Holland.

It occurred to me immediately when I saw it there; yes.

Mr. Stern.

And you thought about it later in the day?

Mr. Holland.

I thought about it that night.

Mr. Stern.

I see.

Mr. HOLLAND. In fact, I went to bed---it was about a week there I couldn't sleep, much, brother, and I thought about it that night, and I have thought about it a lot of times since then.
Mr. STERN. Did you ever go back to look at that site or look at the station wagon?
Mr. HOLLAND. No; I didn't go back that afternoon, because I spent the rest of the day in the county jail office over there, but a number of your Federal Agents went out there then and Secret Service men. It was just a beehive.

Mr. Stern.

Yes.

Mr. Holland.

In a matter of a few minutes.

Mr. STERN. Did you tell any of the Federal officers, or any of the Dallas Police officers about it?

Mr. Holland.

I don't think I did.

Mr. Stern.

So, this is really the first time---

Mr. HOLLAND. This is the first time that I have discussed it, that I remember. Now, I might have told in our conversation. I don't remember that, but I don't think I did.

Mr. Stern.

I am not aware of any other occasion in which you did.

Mr. Morrison.

You thought the officers there would take care of that?

Mr. Holland.

I thought that the officers would take care of it because there