floor using the stairs at the west end of the building. Did you tell them that?

Mr. Williams.

I didn't tell them I was using the stairs. I came back down to the fifth floor in the same elevator I came up to the sixth floor on.

Mr. Ball.

You did?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, also, on January 14th, did you remember talking to a couple of agents named Carter and Griffin?

Mr. Williams.

I can't remember their names, but I am sure I did.

Mr. Ball.

You talked to a good many of them?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Well, they reported here that you went down to the fifth floor, and you did so by going down on the west elevator.

Mr. Williams.

The east elevator. The reason I was able to determine whether it was the east elevator is because I think when you questioned us the other day, the other fellows--I told you I didn't remember which elevator first. But the other fellows said they had the west elevator. There are only two elevators. If they are sure they had the west elevator up, that only leaves the east elevator.

Mr. Ball.

When you got to the fifth floor and left the elevator, at that time were beth elevators on the fifth floor?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Both west and east?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir, as I remember.

Mr. Ball.

The other day, when I talked to you in Dallas, on Friday 20 March--

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And at that time were you able did you remember which elevator it was?

Mr. Williams.

Which elevator I had?

Mr. Ball.

What you had come down from six to five on.

Mr. Williams.

As I remember, I first said I wasn't sure. After the fellows said they brought the west elevator up, I said I must have the east elevator.

Mr. Ball.

Is it fair to say now that you don't have any definite memory as to whether it was the east or west elevator?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir. I believe that would be true.

Mr. Ball.

But you did bring an elevator up?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. Ball.

Now, when you came down there and got off that elevator, did you notice that the other elevator was also on that floor?

Mr. Williams.

Well, at the time I didn't notice it.

Mr. Ball.

Did you, later?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; as I remember.

Mr. Ball.

You don't remember?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; I don't remember.

Mr. Ball.

When you got off the elevator, you went over to the front of the building, the Elm Street side.

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. Ball.

And you saw Norman and--

Mr. Dulles.

Mr. Ball, could we get the time element?

Mr. Ball.

I am going to bring that in.

Mr. Dulles.

All right. I will bide my time.

Mr. Ball.

You went over to the front of the building, did you?

Mr. Williams.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

And you saw your two friends, Norman and Jarman?

Mr. Williams.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

You had known them before?

Mr. Williams.

Yes sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, do you know what time that was?

Mr. Williams.

I do not know the exact time.

Mr. Ball.

It was--