Mr. Jenner.

The one you specifically have in mind, he did have a rectangular one?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

And what color was it?

Mrs. Paine.

Dark, blackish green, or dark brown, something of this nature.

Mr. Jenner.

Anything else you can think about it in the way of description?

Mrs. Paine.

I think it had--it was reinforced, corners, with rivets, or bolts, of something to hold it, hold the corners on it.

Mr. Dulles.

How long was this rectangular suitcase?

Mrs. Paine.

I don't recall. In fact, I can't recall whether it was one or two, but something like that, normal suitcases.

Mr. Jenner.

Mr. Chairman, may I have your permission to approach the witness?

Mr. Mccloy.

And take the measurements?

Mrs. Paine.

And take the measurements.

Mr. Mccloy.

The witness may be approached.

Mrs. Paine.

That or larger, I would say.

Mr. Jenner.

You are now describing the length of the rectangular suitcase, is that correct?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

And that would be 2 1/2 inches?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

That is your best recollection?

Mrs. Paine.

I am brief in my recollection, a normal rectangular shape here.

Mr. Jenner.

Width, that is the side, you mean?

Mrs. Paine.

That is the whole thing. That is looking at the top. How high it is.

Mr. Jenner.

No; wide.

Mrs. Paine.

I am filling it out. This would be the width then from here to here, possibly more.

Mr. Jenner.

Fourteen inches?

Mrs. Paine.

I am not sure I am recalling one or two at the same time. I have to be under oath, and giving you details on things I don't recall that well.

Mr. Jenner.

All we are seeking is your best recollection.

Mrs. Paine.

All right, that is my best recollection.

Mr. Jenner.

Twenty-one and a half times fourteen, and how high was it?

Mrs. Paine.

About so, 6, about 6.

Mr. Jenner.

I said high. Was this lying flat on its side when you saw it?

Mrs. Paine.

Well, all these things again I saw in the fall, so it is a mixed recollection.

Mr. Jenner.

I am going to get as to what you saw in the fall, but it is important to us as to what you saw on this occasion.

Mrs. Paine.

Well, I particularly recall the duffels because they are unusual, and I recall this bag being, I judge Russian make rather than American, it was a large zipper bag.

Mr. Jenner.

And Mrs. Paine, you do recall that zipper bag on this occasion?

Mrs. Paine.

I believe so.

Mr. Jenner.

And there was at least one, if not more than one, rectangular--

Mrs. Paine.

I can't be certain of the zipper bag.

Mr. Jenner.

Hard-sided suitcase?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes; hard-sided suitcase. I can't be certain, absolutely certain, of the zipper bag. I recall seeing so much of it since, tripped over it numerous times, that it may be just that I recalled it. I didn't move this luggage at all.

Mr. Jenner.

I am not suggesting that you did.

Mrs. Paine.

I am sorry I can't remember it better.

Mr. Jenner.

Were all of these suitcases about the same size and shape?

Mrs. Paine.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

You have described the rectangular one. Would you now describe the second, the second in order of your recollection?

Mrs. Paine.

Well, there was at least another rectangular one.

Mr. Jenner.

Hard-sided?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.