Mr. Liebeler.

Who went with you in the car to the meeting, just you and Mr. Oswald or was Mr. Krystinik with you?

Mr. Paine.

No; Krystinik came in his own car, so just Lee and myself.

Mr. Liebeler.

Go ahead with your story.

Mr. Paine.

I thought the meeting was conducted in a manner that illustrated its own beliefs. One of the things said was that the Birchers must not be considered anti-Semitic, anti-Semites because they' are also Birchers.
Lee at this point got up, speaking loud and clear and coherently, saying that, reporting that, he had been to this meeting of the right-wing group the night before or two nights before and he refuted this statement, saying names and saying how that people on the platform speaking for the Birch Society had said anti-Semitic things and also anti-Catholic statements or spoke against the Pope or something.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you remember what Oswald said?

Mr. Paine.

No; I don't remember. He said something very similar to, "I disagree with what had just been said," and I do remember that it contained both some corroboration of his points of view. There had been some kind of an anti-Semitic statement and criticism of the Pope.

Mr. Liebeler.

Oswald seemed to make a convincing argument and seemed to make sense?

Mr. Paine.

That was good speaking. It was out of keeping with the mood of the meeting and nobody followed it up in a similar manner but I think it was accepted as--it made sense; yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did anybody else say anything in response to Oswald's remarks?

Mr. Paine.

I think not.

Mr. Liebeler.

What happened then later on in the meeting?

Mr. Paine.

Later on in the meeting, when the meeting broke up, people clustered into discussion groups, and Frank, I told Frank, who was a colleague at work, Frank Krystinik, about Lee and Marina, and so of course he immediately came to defend free enterprise and what not in opposition to this fellow I told him about, and I left the discussion at that point, thinking I knew the kind of discussion it would be.
It was a discussion between three people, a more elderly man whom I probably thought was a member of the ACLU, and Frank and Lee.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you hear any part of the discussion?

Mr. Paine.

I didn't hear any part of the discussion.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you subsequently discuss it with either Oswald or Krystinik?

Mr. Paine.

And in the car going home, Lee asked me if I knew this man he had been talking to, this older man he had been talking to, and I think he said that the man seemed to be friendly to Cuba or rather he said, "Do you think that man is a Communist?" And I said, "No." And then he said something, "I think he is." Then I asked him why and I think he said something in regard to Cuba or sympathy with Cuba, and then I thought to myself, well, that is rather feeble evidence for proving a Communist.
But he seemed to have the attitude of, felt he wanted to meet that man again and was pleased he had met him. I thought to myself if that is the way he has to meet his Communists, he has not yet found the Communist group in Dallas.

Mr. Liebeler.

Was there a Communist group in Dallas, to your knowledge?

Mr. Paine.

Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Oswald ever speak of a Communist group in Dallas?

Mr. Paine.

No; he did not. I had the impression, this I remember clearly that he had not found the group with similar feelings to his. I then asked Frank in regard to, I can't remember when I asked Frank but I asked Frank about the same conversation and whether he thought that this third man was a Communist. And he thought no, he thought the other man was a better--Frank almost got into a fight with Lee, and the other man was more receptive or didn't argue with him, or drew him out better, Frank used the word, I think.

Mr. Liebeler.

Drew Oswald out better?

Mr. Paine.

Drew Oswald out better. But he didn't gather the impression that he was favoring Castro or Cuba.