Mr. Hubert.

5:30 and 7:30 p.m. on the third floor of the Dallas City Jail. Can you tell us why you fix those times ?

Mr. Jenkins.

Well, at 5:30 I had made a report, a telephone report to the station on what was going on at the police station. I had arrived somewhere around 4 o'clock, and a local colleague was already there. I arrived with Jerry Gunkle, who was ordinarily an announcer, but he was filling in as a newsman because of the situation that afternoon. About 5:30 I made a report and asked what time it was, and was told it was 5:30, and the next time that I can recall realizing what time it was, was 7:30 in 'the evening, due to interviewing people, talking to police officers, trying to get stories, and trying to feed them either to the station or to my control hopper down there.

Mr. Hubert.

What makes. you fix this 7:30 hour?

Mr. Jenkins.

The same reason. I called the station again and checked what time it was.

Mr. Hubert.

Now then, you think it was between those two time checks that you saw Ruby?

Mr. Jenkins.

I would not state it as a fact. I believe it was. I am not positive that it was between those two times, but those are the times that I do recall for that particular afternoon and evening.

Mr. Hubert.

You first went down at 4 o'clock ?

Mr. Jenkins.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

So it could not have been earlier than 4 ?

Mr. Jenkins.

No; it could not have been.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever leave the third floor? When did you leave the third floor?

Mr. Jenkins.

I can't give you an exact time. My reason for leaving the third floor was to go down to the basement assembly room to view Oswald. I believe it was after midnight, if I am not mistaken; it was after midnight.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you leave the third floor at any time during the period between 4 p.m. until you went down to the assembly room?

Mr. Jenkins.

No; I did not.

Mr. Hubert.

Then I would ask you why it is that you have stated that you think it is between 5:30 and 7:30 that you saw Ruby there ?

Mr. Jenkins.

Well, it was earlier in the evening, I am quite sure of that, because I know I spent quite a few hours after 7:30 mainly in the auto theft department, which is just outside the pressroom, and in the pressroom itself. I was talking to officers there. I was doing some phone calling from in there. Most of the pressroom phones were busy all evening long, and I have some friends in the auto theft department. I don't know them by name exactly, but I have had contact with them, and it turned out this became my best source of information as a newsman was just to more or less stay in there and make interoffice calls from time to time on their telephone. I found out I could find out more that way because there wasn't a lot of commotion. It was close to Chief Curry's office and the homicide office.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, there was quite a crowd on the third floor, as I understand?

Mr. Jenkins.

It was packed.

Mr. Huberts.

Do you recall what Ruby was doing when you saw him?

Mr. Jenkins.

The only thing I can recall is, he was talking to somebody. I would suppose a newsman, I don't know. I don't know who he was talking to.

Mr. Hubert.

Was there anything that directed your attention to him particularly ?

Mr. Jenkins.

Only that there were very few people around the elevator shaft. Most of them were gathered around the cameras that were set up right in the intersection, and then slightly past as you get off of the elevator, and most of the newsmen were just lined two and three deep down the hallway back toward the homicide department as you go left coming off the elevator, and also were gathered around the cameras there talking, and at that moment I was going by. There were only two people, this man who I believe to be Ruby, and another man, a taller man, and I can't really describe what he looked like.

Mr. Hubert.

Was he in uniform or civilian clothes ?

Mr. Jenkins.

No; in civilian clothes.