Mr. Hubert.

Now, you described him as being "shook up and ashen white,"

and of course by "ashen white" I think you probably mean pale ?

Mr. Saunders.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

Were there any other manifestations which led up to what is really an intellectual conclusion of being "shook up"?

Mr. Saunders.

Well, Jack is a very nervous individual and always has been. Having called on him in previous years and having known him from a business association over a period of approximately 6 years, you get to know an individual and their reactions to a certain degree. He was virtually speechless, which is quite unusual for Jack Ruby. He usually has a lot to say and will talk to you at very great lengths.

Mr. Hubert.

That was immediately after you came in?

Mr. Saunders.

Right--this was upon my entering the office there I went directly to my desk and spoke to him, and he just had a very dazed staring. look on his face. To describe it further is a little bit hard to do.

Mr. Hubert.

He didn't say anything?

Mr. Saunders.

No; not to my knowledge. Due to the fact that each of us were speaking to one another in tones of remorse and he was certainly replying just like any of the others, in agreement, that it was a terrible event.

Mr. Hubert.

At that time, was it known that the President had been shot?

Mr. Saunders.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

It was not known, I take it, that the President had died?

Mr. Saunders.

No. There was some there were rumors around, possibly 30 or 45 minutes later, that he was dead, but it was not officially noted possibly for another hour or possibly an hour and a half.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, perhaps you had better go over some of the other question marks you have returning to the third paragraph ?

Mr. Saunders.

Well, in this sentence, "When Saunders first saw him, Saunders felt that Ruby was probably more shook up than any of the other people in the office at that time." I don't feel that he was necessarily "more shook up" than anyone else, but he was very obviously shaken by the events and the news of the President's being shot.

Mr. Hubert.

You comment therefore is that this report indicating that you had said to the FBI people that he was more shook up or probably more shook up than any of the other people, is not an accurate statement of what you expressed ?

Mr. Saunders.

I feel not.

Mr. Hubert.

And the accurate statement is that he was shook up like everybody

Mr. Saunders.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

But not more so?

Mr. Saunders.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, turning to the second page of Exhibit No. 1, I notice that in the fifth line you have a question as to a sentence reading as follows: "He never doubted Jack Ruby's word at any time and Ruby never turned out to be a bad credit risk but always paid off exactly as he agreed."

Mr. Saunder.

In our business association Jack Ruby's club, the Vegas Club, was not extended credit by the Dallas News, but it was what we term a "cash with copy" account. He was advertising with us steadily, as he always did thereafter. At the time I was calling on him, quite often he would place advertising copy very close to deadlines over the telephone, which was not convenient to run 10 miles out to his club and try and get cash, where we had a 5-minute deadline or 10-minute deadline. I, in my own workings at the paper quite often work with accounts, and if they tell me "I'll pay you tomorrow," I'll say "fine," and I'll go ahead and put the ad in the paper and go get the money the next day. This is what I would do.
I will not say I never doubted Jack Ruby's word at any time. I think that is a misquote. It is a fact that' he did do what he told me he would do on each instance, but any time In any business when you're .dealing with someone who is on a credit basis where there is no credit that has been established, you can't help but take a tongue-in-cheek attitude, and certainly the statement makeS it sound like I am trying to whitewash him, which I certainly do not mean to do.