Mr. Saunders.

shaken, and an ashen color--just very pale he nodded in reply, if he replied anything--it was just in agreement, so to speak. We were making statements like "Well, this is terrible," and things like that, and he just agreed and nodded, and with that I sat down at my desk and finished some work which I was working on.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see him thereafter ?

Mr. Saunders.

Yes, he was wandering around in the office. After I finished some immediate work--he was talking to various people around the office and there was a small television at an adjoining desk and we were over there watch-
ing it at the time just generally milling around in the office.

Mr. Hubert.

This was Mr. Jeffery's office?

Mr. Saunders.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

When you first came in, was Mr. Newnam there?

Mr. Saunders.

I don't recall.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, Mr. Newnam has previously drawn for us and identified as Exhibit No. 4 of the deposition of John Newnam, a chart showing the general layout of the second floor, the rectangular upper right-hand corner with No. 1 in it, being Mr. Jeffery's desk, and this dot with the circle being the television set.

Mr. Saunders.

That's correct.

Mr. Hubert.

I'm giving you this as a bit of orientation--this squiggly line is a glass partition?

Mr. Saunders.

That's correct.

Mr. Hubert.

Then, of course you see this is the promotion department?

Mr. Saunders.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

He has numbered here the various desks in the advertising department ?

Mr. Saunders.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you look at this and tell us which is your desk?

Mr. Saunders.

No. 5.

Mr. Hubert.

Was it at that desk that you spoke to Ruby, as you indicated a while ago?

Mr. Saunders.

That's correct.

Mr. Hubert.

Where was he with reference to No. 5 ?

Mr. Saunders.

Between 5 and 3--there are 4 desks there.

Mr. Hubert.

Your seat actually is also between 5 and 3, isn't it?

Mr. Saunders.

That's correct.

Mr. Hubert.

Was he on the Young Street side of your chair or the opposite side?

Mr. Saunders.

On the opposite side.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, I'm going to mark a place would you say he was here

or would you show me where he was?

Mr. Saunders.

May I?

Mr. Hubert.

Yes, indeed. Just mark an "X" to show where he was.

Mr. Saunders.

[the witness so marked the exhibit].

Mr. Hubert.

Now, I will draw a little line out from here and say, "Ruby

position when Saunders saw him"; is that correct?

Mr. Saunders.

That's correct.

Mr. Hubert.

And you were on the Young Street side of Ruby, right?

Mr. Saunders.

No; we enter from this area here.

Mr. Hubert.

I see, you came from the other way?

Mr. Saunders.

Right. This is nothing but a blank wall with windows on this side the front of the building.

Mr. Hubert.

I'm going to mark a place called "Y" and ask you if that's when you saw him ?

Mr. Saunders.

Right.

Mr. Hubert.

This is where you were "Saunders' position." How long did you talk to him--about?

Mr. Saunders.

Oh, Just momentarily; Just to speak.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you thereafter have any further conversation with him?

Mr. Saunders.

No.