Mr. Hubert.

How did Apple get into the conversation?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Well, Tom and I, before--

Mr. Hubert.

"Tom" is Mr. Apple, right?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Mr. Apple, right. Mr. Apple and I had been sitting at the bar and we were both naturally very upset about the President's assassination. I was on this day very emotional myself, and in a sense. I was holding Dallas responsible for the assassination of the President. Tom disagreed with me. We were discussing this at the bar. Then, I walked towards the rear of Sol's Turf Bar and somehow I got involved in a conversation with Ruby.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, suppose you tell us about that conversation between you and Ruby first. What was the nature of it and what subjects were discussed?

Mr. Bellocchio.

I believe I told Ruby that much of what had happened, Dallas could take the responsibility for.

Mr. Hubert.

What was his attitude toward that position?

Mr. Bellocchio.

His attitude toward that--he was very incoherent. He was agreeing with me and he was disagreeing with me.

Mr. Hubert.

Was he under the influence of liquor?

Mr. Bellocchio.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Was he drinking at all?

Mr. Bellocchio.

No; not to my knowledge.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he have any drink in front of him?

Mr. Bellocchio.

No; he did not.

Mr. Hubert.

Did this place sell alcoholic liquor?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Pardon?

Mr. Hubert.

Did this place sell liquor?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes; it did. The reason I say he was very incoherent, I remember while I was feeling very, very bad about it, I told Jack Ruby I felt like letting my business go and moving from Dallas, and I remember Ruby telling me not to get excited, that there were a lot of good citizens in Dallas and not to hold everybody responsible.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, he was calming you down?

Mr. Bellocchio.

He was calming me down--yes, but at the same time, rather, I showed him an advertisement that appeared in the Dallas Morning News.

Mr. Hubert.

That's the Weissman ad?

Mr. Bellocchio.

The Weissman ad.

Mr. Hubert.

You had cut it out?

Mr. Bellocchio.

I had cut it out.

Mr. Hubert.

What was his reaction when you showed him that?

Mr. Bellocchio.

His reaction to this was that this was perhaps the work of a group of individuals trying to stir up trouble here in Dallas, racial trouble here in Dallas.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he seem to know about the ad?

Mr. Bellocchio.

He said that he had been down to the newspaper and I believe that part of the ad had been paid in cash.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, he did know about the advertisement?

Mr. Bellocchio.

He did know--yes, he definitely did know about the ad.

Mr. Hubert.

But his attitude toward the Weissman ad at that time, in respouse to your reaction, was that it was probably a group trying to stir up racial difficulties?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Racial--yes,

Mr. Hubert.

What sort of racial difficulties?

Mr. Bellocchio.

I assumed he meant an anti-Jewish feeling.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he use those words specifically?

Mr. Bellocchio.

No. No; he did not say those specific words.

Mr. Hubert.

You gather that from the fact that the name Weissman normally is taken to be a Jewish name?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes; and he seemed to be very upset because the name was Weissman.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know that Jack Ruby was Jewish?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes; I assumed he was Jewish.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he seem to think that the Jewish people in Dallas might be blamed for the assassination of the President on account of this ad?