Mr. Bellocchio.

ber him talking to me about designing some sort of an ornament for the winners at his dance club. He used to have competition between dancers and give prizes to the winners.

Mr. Hubert.

I think you saw him on the 23d of November 1963?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

When was the last time prior to that time that you had seen him?

Mr. Bellocchio.

I would say perhaps 6 months or 8 months or 10 months before that.

Mr. Hubert.

Where did you see him on Saturday, November 23, which was the Saturday after the shooting and death of the President?

Mr. Bellocchio.

At Sol's Tuff Bar or Delicatessen.

Mr. Hubert.

Where is that located?

Mr. Bellocchio.

1517 Commerce Street, right across from the Dallas Power and Light Co. It may be 1515 Commerce Street.

Mr. Hubert.

I think your number is 1515?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes; I'm located right upstairs.

Mr. Hubert.

Who were you with?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Tom Apple.

Mr. Hubert.

Who is he?

Mr. Bellocchio.

He's a personal friend of mine.

Mr. Hubert.

What business is he in?

Mr. Bellochio.

He's an American Airlines pilot and also an engraver in the jewelry business.

Mr. Hubert.

What time did you and Apple go down?

Mr. Bellocchio.

I believe we went down around 3 o'clock.

Mr. Hubert.

For what purpose to get lunch or a drink or what?

Mr. Bellocchio.

I believe lunch, a drink, and it was a day in which everybody was upset and talking and I didn't feel much like working.

Mr. Hubert.

How do you fix the time at 3?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Originally, Tom and I thought or I thought that we had seen Jack Ruby about 1 o'clock or 1:30 or 2.

Mr. Hubert.

And you so stated, I think, to the FBI in your statement which has not yet been identified?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

But now you wish to correct that and say it was later?

Mr. Bellocchio.

We have established the time as being later than that, to the extent that I spoke to another friend of ours that was down there and he tells us it was closer to, I believe, 4 or 4:30 and he knows this is true because he had an appointment, I believe, at 2 o'clock and he was still there at 2 o'clock, and he's told us he stayed about 2 hours after that; therefore, he's very sure that it was not at 2 o'clock.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, you fix the time at 4 o'clock because some friend of yours has told you that he saw you there?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes; we spoke with him.

Mr. Hubert.

You spoke with him and he knows it was 4 because he couldn't himself have gotten there until 4 o'clock.

Mr. Bellocchio.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

What is that friend's name?

Mr. Bellocchio.

I can't think of his name, but he's in the door business. It may come to me in a few seconds--I just can't think of his name right now.

Mr. Hubert.

How did you have occasion to talk to him about this time question?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Well. Well, naturally, afterward we all spoke about having seen Jack Ruby and we spoke about the FBI contacting us, and then we just spoke about it, tried to hash it out exactly what happened, when it happened.

Mr. Hubert.

But you remembered that you had told the FBI it was sometime between 1 and 2 o'clock?

Mr. Bellocchio.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And then this man reminded you it couldn't have been then because he had seen you earlier?

Mr. Bellocchio.

That's correct.

Mr. Hubert.

In spite of the fact that he saw you there at 4 o'clock, would that have eliminated the possibilty that you were there at 2, necessarily?