Mr. Rubenstein.

You know, there was no logic there. I can understand how. a man can be in love with a dog or dogs but why bring it up at a time like that.

Mr. Griffin.

You indicated to me that you saw him during the trial or after the trial?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

How many times did you see him in the course of the trial?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Wait a minute. In the course of the trial, I couldn't see him in the courtroom but we saw him in the evening, I think--I think we were allowed to see him in the evening, I think. I am not sure. I don't want to make a statement I am going to be responsible for because I can't--I think we saw him in the evening. Yes; I think we saw him in the evening, after the trial. I think the hours were from 7:30 to 8:30 and the sheriff was very nice. He let all of us go up one time, the family.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you allowed in his jail cell?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Oh, no; outside, through that little piece of glass only.

Mr. Griffin.

Would you describe that cell? Is there any other, is it possible to see out other than through that glass?

Mr. Rubenstein.

See what out?

Mr. Griffin.

If you are inside were there any other windows, could you look in through the glass and see windows or anything in that cell?

Mr. Rubenstein.

No; it is inside. It is inside the center. It is one of these rooms that are inside, see. It is a separate room. It is not his room. It is like a visiting room that they bring him in from another part of the building into this particular room.

Mr. Griffin.

So you didn't see the cell that he was in?

Mr. Rubenstein.

His own personal cell?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Rubenstein.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Are you able to see anything of the prisoner other than through this glass, this 6-inch glass?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Just about up to here is all you can see.

Mr. Griffin.

You are indicating about the middle of your chest.

Mr. Rubenstein.

That is all.

Mr. Griffin.

Is there anything you want to tell us about the conversations you had with him?

Mr. Rubenstein.

In general, how he is feeling, how he is getting along. How is the food. The sheriff told us that "Any time he doesn't like to eat the stuff we give him," and this was also $20 left downstairs for him someplace so that Jack could order what he wanted but nobody was allowed to bring in any food or candy from the outside, only the sheriff.

Mr. Griffin.

But there was money left downstairs for him?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Oh, yes; we would do that for a stranger. It is our brother.

Mr. Griffin.

Has he been supplied, has money been made available to him throughout his incarceration?

Mr. Rubenstein.

He received quite a bit of money from people who send it in to him, you know voluntarily, telegrams, letters, money, money orders. He got money from all over the country. One country in Europe invited him to come over as a guest.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you see the letter of the invitation?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I think we have the letter home.

Mr. Griffin.

What country was that?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I think Rhodesia.

Mr. Griffin.

Has the family, however, provided sort of a weekly allowance for Jack?

Mr. Rubenstein.

We could always see that Jack would get whatever he needs. They don't allow too much in there in the first place.

Mr. Griffin.

But you indicated he was left, at least while you were down there during the trial he was left, enough money so that he could order meals from the outside.

Mr. Rubenstein.

If he wanted it, naturally.

Mr. Griffin.

How about before the trial, was he given money for that purpose?