Mr. Rubenstein.

that she needed for room rent and I says, "What else, Jack?" And he said, "That is all I can remember."
Then he mentioned Something about the policemen down in Dallas. He said they lied. He said, "I didn't say any of those things."

Mr. Griffin.

That would have been after the trial that he mentioned that to you. I am talking about conversations he had before the trial.

Mr. Rubenstein.

Oh, that is right, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember that meeting?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Well, there wasn't much to say. First of all they have a little piece of glass that big that you can see him through.

Mr. Griffin.

You are indicating about 6 by 6.

Mr. Rubenstein.

It is hard to talk to people through a piece of glass like that. You have got a barrier between you. He looked good. Jack looked good, but he didn't act right. He looked disturbed to me.

Mr. Griffin.

What about him, what did you see that--

Mr. Rubenstein.

He wasn't our Jack 100 percent. There was something bothering him.

Mr. Griffin.

You don't know?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I don't know. I am not a psychiatrist. I can't figure the man out. We knew it wasn't right. We thought it was the environment in the jail, maybe he was mistreated.

Mr. Griffin.

Are you talking about the time you saw him before the before Christmas?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

What did he say or what indications did you see about his face or mannerisms?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Something like "What are they keeping me here for, what have they got me in here for?"
Half sentences. He asked me if I called certain people and here I haven't even known any people. He gave me a list of names to call and I tried to write them down, you know, quick and I didn't know nobody. I didn't want to argue with him. I didn't want to aggravate his situation. I didn't want to disturb him any more than I had to and he gave me names, called off names, I said I will get in touch with them.
Later on when I went out with Eva, I said, "Who are these people I am supposed to call?" She says, "Forget about it. He gives me the same thing, people I am supposed to see and call to help him." I didn't know. And he wanted us to get every lawyer in the State of Texas. "Did you call this guy? Did you call Percy Foreman and did you call him?" I didn't know anybody. We didn't know who to call. We were strangers in Texas. We were never in trouble before.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he ask you to call people other than lawyers?

Mr. Rubenstein.

His personal friends, his personal friends. I think some owed him some money, no names were mentioned that Eva didn't know. She knew all the names he mentioned. That is why she told me to forget about it. She probably had already contacted them. Friends in Dallas, personal people who were either very dear friends of his and club members. And he was worried more about the dogs than he was about anybody else.

Mr. Griffin.

Was the occasion that you went down to see him before Christmas, was that at the time of the bail bond hearing? Do you remember the hearings?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I don't remember what the hearing was but I was down there.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you go down there for a hearing in December?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I don't remember. I think it was a bail bond hearing.

Mr. Griffin.

You say he was more concerned about the dogs?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Than anything else?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Yes, sir; worried about his dogs. I figured that was odd. Here is a man incarcerated, in prison for a shooting and here he is worried about his dogs and that didn't make any sense to me.