Mr. Mccullough.

assignment in Dallas. But most of the time I was on the floor and in a corridor outside the room in which principals in the assassination of the President and the subsequent events were being questioned by Dallas police officials. And I believe by members of the Federal agencies.
I was not alone. There were at least 50 other reporters along this narrow corridor. It was around midnight, to the best of my recollection, when they brought a man who police told us was Lee Harvey Oswald into an interrogation room. Trying to get a look at the physical setup inside this room, I stood briefly on a metal ashtray that was on the corridor. And coming down from this metal ashtray, I hit with my right elbow a man who was standing beside me. I apologized for bumping into the man and expressed the hope that I had
not struck his notes, assuming he was another reporter. He explained to me that he was not a reporter, that he was a businessman in Dallas, and I noted then that he was carrying a box. I would guess it was about 8 inches to a foot square. And the reason I remember it is on one side, in white lettering, on a blue background, was the word "Alpacuna." It struck me as odd, that a reporter would be carrying a box. And then, of course, when he explained he was a businessman I took a good look at him, because I think reporters get annoyed--because there were enough of us in the corridor without outsiders being there. I mentioned this to another member of the Bulletin staff later, and then discovered after the shooting of Oswald, the man I had bumped into that night was Ruby.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask you some questions about this. You mentioned that you were trying to look into an interrogation room.

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Did this meeting with the man you think was Ruby, did it occur on the third floor of the police department?

Mr. Mccullough.

I am not certain--on whatever floor the police department offices are located. There is a whole string of them. There is a homicide squad, robbery, theft units. I believe it was on the third floor. It was not the upper floors. There were floors above. I am fairly certain it was the third floor.

Mr. Griffin.

But it was on the floor that the detective bureaus were on?

Mr. Mccullough.

That is correct; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, what particular detective bureau or interrogation room were you looking into at the time?

Mr. Mccullough.

There, again, I have to go on the basis of recollection, but I believe it was the homicide squad. The officers immediately involved with the investigation had been moving in and out of that particular door for hours, bringing in, for instance, a bus driver, a taxicab driver--at least from the cloth ing they wore. At one point swald's mother, at another point his wife were in and out of this room.

Mr. Griffin.

Was it Lee Oswald that you were trying to get a look at?

Mr. Mccullough.

Actually, I knew I could not see him. I just was wondering whether it was one large room or a maze of partitioned offices, so I could describe it in the story I had planned to write.

Mr. Griffin.

But what I wanted to ask you is was the thing that prompted your getting up on this ashtray the fact that Lee Oswald had been taken into that room?

Mr. Mccullough.

That is correct; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, do you recall a press conference that Henry Wade held down in the basement some time that evening?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Did this event which you are now describing, in which you climbed on the ashtray--did that occur before or after the press conference?

Mr. Mccullough.

The event that I described, stepping up on the ashtray momentarily, happened several hours prior to the press conference held by District Attorney Wade.

Mr. Griffin.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that it was several hours?

Mr. Mccullough.

Well, there, again, I have to go on recollection. But there was this much time ensued. In other words, after meeting the man that I be-