Mr. Mccullough.

lieved to be Ruby, I stayed for a long period--I would estimate 2 hours, before the press conference was held.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall if Lee Oswald was brought down into that interrogation room again between the time you saw the man you think is Ruby, and the time that Henry Wade held his press conference in the basement?

Mr. Mccullough.

He was brought out of the interrogation room. I don't recall that he was brought back into it before the press conference was held.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, were you up on the third floor at the time that--just shortly before the press conference was held?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And do you recall, were you there when Henry Wade and, I think, Captain Fritz, and perhaps Chief Curry, walked out of the homicide room, just before everybody went down into the basement? Do you recall that?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes; I do. I believe that I was in an opening, or at the main corridor, at the bay near the elevators, when the three officers you mentioned, the three officials you mentioned, walked along and said there would be a press conference.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall that at that time, or just before Chief Curry and Fritz and Wade came out, that Lee Oswald had been in the homicide office?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes. In other words, Oswald had been in the homicide office before I again saw those three officials.

Mr. Griffin.

What I am getting at is whether you recall that Fritz and Curry came out of that homicide office just after something had taken place in there with Oswald.

Mr. Mccullough.

No; this I do not recall--whether there was any immediacy involved there.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask you this question, then: Are you clear in your mind that the occasion on which you saw Ruby was a substantial period of time before the occasion when Fritz and Curry came out?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes. However, I might add that certainly Fritz, and I believe to a lesser extent Curry were in and out of that room many times. I mean it was not just one movement into the room, and then a long period of time, and a final movement out by those two officers. They were moving in and out at different times during the evening.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, maybe we can work at the time that you saw the man you think is Ruby from the other end. That is, focusing on your activities shortly after you arrived at the police station. You say you arrived in Dallas about 7, and you went directly to the police station. So I assume that you got there somewhere around 7:30. Did you check into a hotel first?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes; we checked into a hotel immediately across the street from the police station, municipal building.

Mr. Griffin.

When you got up there in the police department, did anything occur between the time you arrived and the time you saw the man that you think was Ruby that is significant in your mind that we might use to pinpoint time here?

Mr. Mccullough.

No; except that there was, again, a period of time ensuing between my arrival at the police headquarters and my seeing Ruby, and that would have been occupied on my part by trying to talk to the police officials and trying to get, I believe, to see Wade and interviewing just everyone I could get ahold of who knew anything at all about it.

Mr. Griffin.

When you saw the man you believed was Ruby, did.he indicate to you what kind of business he was in?

Mr. Mccullough.

No; he didn't say what kind of business. This is what made the box stay in my mind. I assumed he was a shirt merchant or something, or that it was a sweater. And there, again, the reason for my remembering him was a bit of annoyance on my part that there was outsiders in that row, when it was terribly crowded.

Mr. Griffin.

Did this look like the kind of box one would carry clothes or shirts or sweaters in?

Mr. Mccullough.

Only because I in my own mind related the word Alpacuna to some sort of textile trade name. I had never seen the name before.

Mr. Griffin.

I don't know what Alpacuna is. Have you subsequently learned?