Mr. Griffin.

To your knowledge at the time you were there, would you have been able to have seen Ruby in the place if he were there?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, I am sure if he was--if he was in the same area I was, certainly. I don't know whether he was or not.

Mr. Griffin.

It would depend on how many rooms the radio station has. Were you in the newsroom?

Mr. Pappas.

I don't believe they have a newsroom as such. They have an area off of a control room which has some teletypes in it. I guess if that is their newsroom--yes; I was in the newsroom.

Mr. Griffin.

How about in any of the broadcast studios? Were you in any of those?

Mr. Pappas.

No; you see, the area that I was describing serves, from what I could tell, as a newsroom, as a broadcasting area, and as a control area, also, control room, because the person on the air was speaking into a microphone, broadcasting and doing his own control work while the teletypes were going I believe, right in the same room, with all of us. I was having a sandwich while he was broadcasting, and I was doing my own work, as I recall. Wait a minute now. No; there is another studio next to it--that is right. At any rate, there is a control area and a studio, and I think the one that I was in that Friday night served-as a broadcast studio, also. But there is another studio right next door to it, and you can see into it. There is a big glass panel there and everything else.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have any way of fixing the time that you were at KLIF?

Mr. Pappas.

No; it was early in the morning. I am not quite sure when. Maybe 2:30. I don't know. It was well into the morning.

Mr. Griffin.

Could it have been as late as 3 o'clock in the morning?

Mr. Pappa.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Could it have been any earlier than 2 o'clock in the morning?

Mr. Pappas.

It is difficult for me to say.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember the names of any of the people whom you met there?

Mr. Pappas.

I don't recall the names offhand. I have a mental image of one person, but I cannot recall his name immediately.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you meet a fellow by the name of Russ Knight, called The Weird Beard?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Was he at the studio when you were there that night?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there any other people at the studio?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes; there was one other person. He is the person I have a mental picture of, but I cannot think of his name right now.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember the name Glenn Duncan?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Was that the man?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, Saturday, what time did you arrive at the police department?

Mr. Pappas.

I am afraid that Saturday--I went directly from the station to the police station. I didn't get any sleep at all.

Mr. Griffin.

How long did you remain there on Saturday?

Mr. Pappas.

On, I remained there until Saturday night at approximately 8:45 or so, 9 o'clock.

Mr. Griffin.

Are you able to fix at all where you would have been between 3, Saturday afternoon, and 6 o'clock Saturday evening--that is to say, can you tell us if you were up on the third floor during that period?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, I was there most of the day. I am sure I had occasion to be there from, 3 to 6.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, did you station yourself permanently up on the third floor, or were you throughout the building the day that you were there, on Saturday?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, we were throughout the building; yes. I was, I all over the building.