Mr. Griffin.

Did you see Jack Ruby at all at the police department on Saturday?

Mr. Pappas.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you tell us what security precautions you observed being taken when you were at the police department on Saturday, first of all with respect to the admission of newspaper people onto the third floor?

Mr. Pappas.

They were following the same procedure, posting a man, two men, sometimes three men, at the elevator doors, and checking, I suppose the credentials of the people who came in.

Mr. Griffin.

Were your credentials checked on Saturday?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes. I wear my police badge in a situation like that, or the New York City press card, which is issued by the police department, so that it was visible all the time. They had checked it. So I suppose they didn't want to check it again, I am not sure.

Mr. Griffin.

Was Lee Oswald moved at any time through the third floor hallway when you were there?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

What kind of protection was provided for Oswald that you recall in moving him?

Mr. Pappas.

He was given a police escort. Whenever they were going to move him, they would have all of the reporters clear away through the corridor. We were all Jammed in, and they cleared a path through the mass of bodies. And then Oswald would-be taken out by detectives and uniformed police.

Mr. Griffin.

How close could you get to Oswald as he was being moved?

Mr. Pappas.

Right next to him.

Mr. Griffin.

About what time did you leave the police department on Saturday?

Mr. Pappas.

Oh, roughly 9, 9:15 p.m.

Mr. Griffin.

By the time you left, had you heard anything about the movement of Lee Oswald the next day?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

What had you heard?

Mr. Pappas.

We had heard just before we were sent home, that he was--that he was not going to be moved that night. We heard that from Chief Curry. He said, and I remember his quote he said, "We plan to move this man not tonight."

Mr. Griffin.

Did he say anything about what time he would be moved the next day that you recall?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, it was sort of a question and answer thing. The questioning went like this. After he said-- we were all wondering whether we were going to have to spend the entire night at the station. And--you know, waiting for Oswald's departure. And we were quite relieved when Mr. Curry came out and he said that they did not plan to move him that night--at least I did--I wanted roger some sleep. I hadn't slept in a couple of days. And the reporters started to question him. And the questioning went like this:
"When will you move him?"
"Well, if you boys would be here by 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, that will be early enough."
And someone yelled, "Do you plan to move him at 10 o'clock?"
And the answer was something to this effect--"Well, if you boys get here by 10 o'clock"---or "It won't be any later than 10 o'clock."
And we all got the pretty good impression that is when they were going to move him.
He didn't come out and say, "We will move him tomorrow at 10 o'clock."
But we all got the distinct impression that is when it was going to be.

Mr. Griffin.

What time did you arrive back at the police department on Sunday morning?

Mr. Pappas.

At 9:15, 9:20.

Mr. Griffin.

And where did you go a,t that point?

Mr. Pappas.

Went to Chief Curry's office. Third floor.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you actually go inside the office?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes--into the chief's complex of offices.