Mr. Pappas.

Roughly 8:30, 8:20. It took us as long as it takes to get from the airport to the city hall. And I believe it is about 20 minutes.

Mr. Griffin.

So you went directly to the city hall?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there other people with you?

Mr. Pappas.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Who was with you at that time?

Mr. Pappas.

There were several other reporters and photographers from New York.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember their names?

Mr. Pappas.

Only one that I can remember. His name was Bill Saro.

Mr. Griffin.

Who is he with?

Mr. Pappas.

He left United Press--he is with the Herald Tribune, I believe.

Mr. Griffin.

But he was with United Press at that time?

Mr. Pappas.

I believe he was with the Herald Tribune at the time.

Mr. Griffin.

I see.
You used the word Saro, and it sounds a little like Carroll. I notice in one of the interviews the FBI had with you they reported that one of the people you were with was a man by the name of Carroll, Mickey Carroll of the New York Herald Tribune. Is this the same person?

Mr. Pappas.

No; Carroll was later on. We worked together.

Mr. Griffin.

I see.
Now, when you arrived at the city hall, where did you first go?

Mr. Pappas.

We went to the third floor.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you check in with any of the officials there?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, we were stopped at the elevator by a police captain, I think, or a lieutenant--some officer--he checked our credentials.

Mr. Griffin.

When you arrived, was there any procedure set up for identifying and screening newsmen that you were aware of?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, only the procedure I described--that there was a man posted at the elevator who asked for my identification.

Mr. Griffin.

You were not asked to check in with any central office?

Mr. Pappas.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

At any time while you were there were you given any instructions by the police department as to where you were to be, where you were allowed to be, and what procedures, if any, were to be followed?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, we were instructed that we were not to be in the office, the homicide office, where the questioning was going on. We were in the corridor, on the third floor. We were not told--I don't think that any limitations were drawn, or any boundaries beyond which we could not go were laid out for us, except that we were not allowed into the homicide office. And they had a guard outside to make sure of that.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you aware of anyone in the police department who was performing liaison responsibilities with the press, or who had some special designation as a person that members of the press should contact?

Mr. Pappas.

No, no; later.

Mr. Griffin.

Later meaning--

Mr. Pappas.

I am talking about the trial. They had a public relations man. The thought flashed across my mind. But that was during the second time I was in Dallas.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall your activities at the police department between the time you arrived and about midnight when District Attorney Wade held a press conference down in the assembly room?

Mr. Pappas.

Well, I performed the Job I was sent there to do--mainly to gather information and to report back to New York on it. I stayed on the third floor hoping to get interviews with people who might have seen the assassination, and I was required by my office to report back immediately, which I did. I went across the street to the White Plaza Hotel, made a phone call.

Mr. Griffin.

About what time would that have been? How soon after you arrived?