Mr. Griffin.

All right. Now, in the first conversation, did he mention the advertisement that had been run in the Morning News?

Mrs. Grant.

He said about three words, "Did you see the ad? Did you see this morning's paper?" And I said, "Yes."

Mr. Griffin.

All right. Now, in the second conversation, did he mention the advertisement in the Morning News?

Mrs. Grant.

The second time now I am going to tell you when he came over. He was already in a fight.

Mr. Griffin.

I am not talking about when he came over. The second time he telephoned you.

Mrs. Grant.

Yes; he mentioned the ad.

Mr. Griffin.

That was shortly after you heard the man on television say the President was dead?

Mrs. Grant.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, you had a telephone conversation which you thought was made from the Morning News?

Mrs. Grant.

There was evidence that it was made from there.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Jack say anything about the advertisement?

Mrs. Grant.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

What did he say about the advertisement?

Mrs. Grant.

You know, I have never met John Newnam personally or over the phone or anything. I was carrying on so, and I said, "You better come here." He said, "Listen." I knew I wouldn't be able to get through to him. His mind was wandering.

Mr. Grant.

I don't know what you have in mind. I want to know what he said.

Mrs. Grant.

He said, "The telephones are ringing like mad." He said, "People from all over the country are calling up and canceling their ads, big companies," and this is what he said. And John Newnam did not put it in his statement. Jack went over ,to this fellow, and this fellow came to the phone, because I heard him say "Hello." He said, "This is my sister, and she is hysterical." I heard my brother say that to this guy.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you say?

Mrs. Grant.

I want to tell you with Jack--

Mr. Griffin.

Tell us what you heard Jack say to somebody who apparently was coming over to the phone?

Mrs. Grant.

Now, you know, whether he repeated this in the house later on or over the phone, I know this, Jack, knowing my brother, I know he can't control himself like I can, which you probably know. He said, "What the hell, are you so money hungry?" And the guy had said this to Jack, "Well you know, Jack, I take orders from my superiors."

Mr. Griffin.

Did you hear the man say that over the telephone?

Mrs. Grant.

It seems to me I heard something like that.

Mr. Griffin.

But it could have been something Jack said to you in the apartment later on?

Mrs. Grant.

It could have been, though I know he said later on, that he was so steamed up.

Mr. Griffin.

About how long did that telephone conversation last with Jack?

Mrs. Grant.

Well, 10 minutes would be exaggerating.

Mr. Griffin.

Might have been as little as 5 minutes?

Mrs. Grant.

Could have been. It wasn't 3 minutes. From 5 to 10 minutes. I don't know.

Mr. Griffin.

Mrs. Grant, how long after that telephone conversation did you then either hear from Jack or see him?

Mrs. Grant.

I would say now, it seems to me, this phone call came in about 20 or 25 after 1, because I already heard it, don't forget. And it seems to me heard it 10 minutes. Now, see, you can't depend on my timing that day.

Mr. Griffin.

We are not going to. Just let me worry about that.

Mrs. Grant.

Okay.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, listen, now, I want to find out when it was that you next either heard from Jack or saw him again?