Mr. Griffin.

Were you present when he talked with Mr. Jaffe?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Yes, I was in the shop. Many times they would talk right there in the shop also.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember any conversations they had?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

None in particular. I was always taught, I mean, not to interfere with the other people's business but, of course, by overlistening and different things they would be talking about the meeting and who would be there.

Mr. Griffin.

What kind of a meeting did Jasser talk about?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

At that time I really didn't know what kind of meetings they were. I think--I knew they had something to do with Russia at that time. That is all I knew, and with the Communist Party. All of them--

Mr. Griffin.

What was said that indicated to you that it had to do with Russia?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Because Phil Jasser, Morton and Herb Pazol, Morton Standt, Lawson Jaffe, and there was another man, Shuster, and I can't remember his first name, all these men at one time or another have talked to me trying to get me to join their party, to join the Communist Party.

Mr. Griffin.

Who--let me get these names. You say Standt talked to you?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Morton Standt.

Mr. Griffin.

And Jasser talked to you?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Phil Jasser was the worst one.

Mr. Griffin.

Who else?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Herb and Morton Pazol had talked to me. They hadn't said too much but they had talked to me at times.

Mr. Griffin.

Who else?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

And Lawson Jaffe; and then Shuster.

Mr. Griffin.

What is Shuster's first name?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

This I can't remember.

Mr. Griffin.

What did he do for a living?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

He had a Shuster's Clothing.

Mr. Griffin.

Anybody else that you can think of?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Well now, those were the only ones there in Muncie, Ind. Now, there were several of them that used to come from Chicago.

Mr. Griffin.

Before we get to that let's stay with the people in Muncie.
When was the first time that anyone of these men talked to you about what you called Russia or the Communist Party?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

The first time was Shortly after I went to work for Sam Jaffe, and Phil Jasser came in there.

Mr. Griffin.

What did he say to you?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Well, he was telling me how wonderful it would be if everybody made the same amount of money whether they owned the store or whether they worked for it, and I can't remember all the stuff he used to give me because he would very seldom get very far before Sam would interrupt and make him get out because Sam refused to let him talk to me if he was there.

Mr. Griffin.

I see. Did you get some indication that perhaps Sam didn't even want to have these political talks going on?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

I always had the feeling that he didn't like it, because now they was more or less down on Sam because of the fact that they used to fly the Russian flag in the synagogue and that was the Jewish temple there, and Sam put up a very strong protest about flying the Russian .flag and said if they was going to live in the United States and be U.S. citizens then they should live by the U.S. flag, and because of that it was my understanding, whether it ever happened or not, but I have been told by two or three different ones, I can't say particularly who they were right now, they were even threatening to throw Sam out of the synagogue because of it.
And I know whenever he came up there or if he ever came in and caught them talking to me about getting on the right side of the fence and joining their party and attending some of these meetings he would immediately jump on him, make him get out and he would lecture to me for 5 or 10 minutes not to pay any attention to them.