Mr. Griffin.

All right. Now, on the second occasion when you were down there last August, how did--how did you happen to decide to go down on that occasion?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, the kids had had a bad experience at day camp and were very restless and I thought I'd get them away for awhile.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

And so I called Jack one day and asked him, "Do you want us?"
He says, "Sure, come down," and we did. We don't need any reservations so we did.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you call Jack or did you call Eva?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

No, I called Jack.

Mr. Griffin.

But you lived at Eva's house?
Mrs: KAMINSKY. Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And how long did you remain on that occasion?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

We were there about 2 weeks.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, did you visit Jack in his apartment at that time?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, yes, we did; and the last 2--the last 2 days we stayed with Jack.

Mr. Griffin.

Why was that?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, we he was going to drive us home to the--to the train, and we well, first we were going to go to dinner and he was going to take us back to the apartment, and we were going to leave the next day, and instead we spent 2 days there.
As a matter of fact, the reason we stayed over, Eva and Jack had an argument and he asked me to stay over. [He believed I might make peace between them.] He felt badly and, as a matter of fact, the minute it was over, we never did get to dinner, we went back to his apartment. He had me call her and see how she was.

Mr. Griffin.

What was the argument about?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Oh, someone had called him person to person and she had accepted the call and it was for him and so he became angry and then, she asked him if he knew somebody, and he didn't, and she kept repeating the name, and she sort of riled him up, you know.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mrs. Kaminsky.

And I myself would have become angry. She kept repeating it, "Don't you know so-and- so? Don't you know so-and-so?"
I can't think of the name. He said, "No, I don't"; and then, quite a few words and an argument. As a matter of fact, he pushed her.

Mr. Griffin.

He pushed her?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he hurt her?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, I don't think he actually, he practically pushed her out of the car. I was a little frightened, you know, myself.

Mr. Griffin.

Where did this occur?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

This was on the way to the restaurant. It was---I think it is a Thursday night, about the end of August. That is all I would know.

Mrs. Kaminsky.

And he just practically pushed her out of the car; and then, afterward after it was over, I stayed in the car because my luggage was there. Self-preservation is instinctive, and we got back to his apartment and he had me call her and ask her if she was all right and---because she had to take a cab back to--

Mr. Griffin.

Then, did you remain on for another 2 days?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, I think that was Thursday night. I stayed Friday and I think I left-Saturday or Sunday. I am not positive, one of the 2 days.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, when you were when you were in Jack's apartment did you notice---what could you tell us about the apartment? How was it maintained?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, it was a nice, modern apartment and a cleaning woman every week or so. Of course, a bachelor will let things go. He cooked; he made dinner for us and he let my children help him mix up something. They were very happy. It is something I don't let them do.