Mr. Griffin.

the time Jack would have been 10 or 12; that is, 1921 or 1923, until he became, an adult, there was no real father in the home?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

That's right, and even afterwards, I mean.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes. So that all the boys really grew up without a father in the home--

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Is that right? Does that seem accurate to you?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Have you had occasion to visit Jack in the period from the time he went to Dallas until he shot Lee Oswald?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Yes; I Was out there twice.

Mr. Griffin.

When were you there?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

I was there this last August for the--the last 2 weeks in August with my children, and I was there the preceding year for a week and then Jack even stopped in Chicago last August, just a week I believe, before I went down there just between planes.

Mr. Griffin.

How did you happen to go to Dallas on the first occasion?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, I was kind of run down and nervous, frankly, I wanted to get away from the children a little bit and I didn't know where to go.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mrs. Kaminsky.

And I don't remember if I called him or asked him if he'd mind if I'd come down, but whatever it was, he welcomed me.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mrs. Kaminsky.

And I stayed a week.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you go down alone?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

The first time; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you stay with Jack or with one of your other brothers and sisters?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

No; I stayed with Jack that time, all the time. This last trip, I stayed primarily with Eva because I had the two little girls and she had more not necessarily should I say "more time," but because of all the women being together.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes. How old are your children?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Eight and 11 1/2.

Mr. Griffin.

They are both girls?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Right.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, the first time that you went down, why was it that you decided to stay with Jack rather than Eva or Sam?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, I--frankly, I was--felt closer to Jack. I mean Jack has always been wonderful to me and not that I used to go to him with problems, I never had such problems, but always has been very understanding, considerate, and I just thought it would be more to my liking to stay with him.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes. Did you have a chance to meet any of his friends on that occasion?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Well, as a matter of fact, that week, this master of ceremonies who reads minds--I forget his name--

Mr. Griffin.

Bill DeMar?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

Yes. He was staying there, and I asked Jack what he was doing there and--this is Jack. He says--well, he says, "He needs the money to send to his wife and kids, so why should he pay a hotel room, so I let him stay here." And Jack fed him, too, and he was staying there that week.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes. Where was Jack living at that time?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

I think it was the on Monterey--Monterey or Ewing, it seems to me.

Mr. Griffin.

Was It the same building that he was in at the time he shot Lee Oswald?

Mrs. Kaminsky.

No. Wait, yes; I think it was. I think it was the same apartment. They all look alike, you know, these new modern structures, and we would drive up--

Mr. Griffin.

If you are not sure, it is better to say that you are not sure.

Mrs. Kaminsky.

I am not sure.