He popped my own sister on the nose. That is the kind of a guy he was, something quick, something broke in him and he hit her, hit her right in the nose, which isn't like our family.

Mr. Griffin.

So when you say he wouldn't hurt anybody, what do you mean by that?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I mean he wouldn't go out of the way and start a fight. I mean he wouldn't just pick a fight on the street.

Mr. Griffin.

He did fight with people on the street?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Oh, yes; oh, sure sure. That is because they were doing something to, something to hurt him.

Mr. Griffin.

Or at least he felt they did?

Mr. Rubenstein.

That is right. He wouldn't star anything. Let's put it that way. He wouldn't start anything. He would let the other guy start it. That would be the end.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, when you say he wouldn't start anything, he sometimes would strike the first blow, wouldn't he? He didn't wait for the other guy to hit him?

Mr. Rubenstein.

That is true. But there must have been cause to lead up to it.

Mr. Griffin.

You feel that these were there any times when you observed him in a fight?

Mr. Rubenstein.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

So what you are telling us about his fights you heard from other people, fights that he did get in? How about arguments? Have you observed him in arguments with people?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Yes; he was a little bit stubborn with his arguments. When he felt he had a certain idea that was it. He was a hard person to change or to convince.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you think--was Jack a personally ambitious person?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Oh, definitely.

Mr. Griffin.

What were his aspirations and his ambitions? I want you to tell us from your own personal knowledge. Do you have any personal knowledge of what his aspirations and ambitions were, did he ever talk to you about that?

Mr. Rubenstein.

No; but I feel he always wanted to be successful and he was capable, and always trying to meet the right type of people, where he could either be friendly or have knowledge to a promotion. Let's put it that way. To him a promotion was the greatest thing in his life, something to have exclusive that was his, with his experience in selling items and promoting items, or promoting an individual, where he would get some profit out of it, that was his ambition.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, was he interested in the promotion aside from making money, was he interested in any notoriety that he might get out of it?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Jack was not the type, I am trying to tell you. Jack was not the notorious type of a person. Because of all the fights that he had, he never came home and told us about one. We had to hear it from his friends.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he do anything, did he promote anything which would have also involved the promotion of himself?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Explain that.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, for example, in the promotion of this Little Daddy, would it have become known that, generally known that, this was Jack's boy? Would Jack have received some recognition for that?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Possibly. It is possible naturally being in the enterainment field and Jack was learning more and more about the entertainment field and the prospects of promotion in another form, naturally he would have to be recognized as he is the one who found Sugar Daddy.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you think of any other thing that he was promoting, any products that he was promoting?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Yes; some vitamin deal down there. He mailed us a sample that somebody was making something down there but I couldn't see it. He mailed me a sample of that, too, I believe. Somebody was making a vitamin pill down there that Jack got ahold of and he became the distributor.