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(Testimony of Thomas Stewart Palmer)
Mr. Palmer.
He called Irving Mazzie on several occasions, and without my receiving any confirmation either from Irving or from New York as to what these conversations embodied, he instructed me that he was right, Jack Ruby, and I agreed. However, I had a request to have the other clubs shut down because of their noncompliance disregarded by New York. So it became my policy, and probably the reason for my termination with AGVA was that one or the other of the officers either the west coast or the east coast, would have to come in and straighten this out.
Mr. Griffin.
You were getting conflicting orders, I take it?
Mr. Palmer.
Yes; I was. My New York office and my regional office were giving me conflicting orders.
Mr. Griffin.
Irving Mazzie, I remember, was telling you to shut them down; is that right?
Mr. Palmer.
He did not at first. The New York office told me to shut them down, and Irving Mazzie said give them time. And there was this banter back and forth on the west coast. They had, I think, the Pink Pussy Cat and the Body Shop, were continuing their amateur nights and Irving said to permit the clubs here to continue until they ceased on the west coast. Eventually they ceased on the west coast, but there was still this complete uncertainty, in my mind, about here, because he continued to permit me to permit them to have their amateur nights.
Mr. Griffin.
Did you have any information that the Weinsteins were talking to Mr. Mazzie or Mr. Faye?
Mr. Palmer.
Yes.
Mr. Griffin.
So that while Jack Ruby was trying to persuade AGVA to shut the Weinsteins down as far as amateur night was concerned, the Weinsteins were talking to other people?
Mr. Palmer.
Yes. As a matter of fact, perhaps it is my suggestion in fact, I forwarded a letter from Barney Weinstein to, I believe it was, Bobby Faye at that time. Yes, it was--concerning his part in the establishment of the amateur nights and that it was definitely a necessary thing for him to remain in business.
Mr. Griffin.
Do you remember that on or about the 13th of November of 1963 after Ruby had contacted Bobby Faye, you sent out a letter to people in your district advising them that amateur nights were not permitted?
Mr. Palmer.
That is correct.
Mr. Griffin.
Now, after that letter was sent out, what did the Weinsteins do?
Mr. Palmer.
I think Abe Weinstein suspended the thing, the amateur nights for 2 weeks. I am not sure. I know that Jack was subscribing wholeheartedly to the memo. And Barney indicated that he was going to relinquish his affiliation with AGVA.
It became necessary then for me to indicate to our membership that while it was legal for them to accept employment wherever they wished, if it were in violation of our rules as a union, we were obligated to exercise a fine on them. And this, I believe, right up to the minute of the show, Barney indicated an indifference. Then he realized that this would do two things.
First of all, put several of his people he liked out of business, or in jeopardy, let us say, to the amount of $100, I believe, per person. He decided to withdraw himself that evening and try to negotiate again with New York. And again, there was much confusion.
Mr. Griffin.
Did Jack Ruby ever accuse you of showing favoritism?
Mr. Palmer.
Frequently. On the other hand, I had to point out to him that I exercised extreme leniency in his welfare, to which he agreed, and was placated with this sort of thing.
Mr. Griffin.
To your knowledge, were there other people in the business who -were also trying to get these amateur nights stopped?
Mr. Palmer.
Yes. In fact, Irving Mazzie on the west coast, I believe, came into civil court with the, I think it was, Body Shop, and received several threats on his life.
The same thing occurred, I believe, in the State of Washington in Seattle There were three areas that seemed to subscribe more strongly than the others to that.
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