Mr. Palmer.

the other two, which permitted him to employ exotics and masters of ceremonies and specialty acts at a lower rate, and I often pointed this out to him. He then complained it should be even lower but it could not possibly be.

Mr. Griffin.

Why was he permitted to pay them at a lesser rate?

Mr. Palmer.

Clubs are rated deluxe, A, B, C, and D and his was far from being deluxe, which allowed about a $10 a week less minimum.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember what his rating was?

Mr. Palmer.

I think it was a B house.

Mr. Griffin.

The rating is deluxe, and below that is A and B?

Mr. Palmer.

Yes. The other two houses, I believe the Theatre Lounge is an A and the Colony Club is a B, but it never, he never practiced minimum rate.
See, we only guaranteed the minimum rate. The artist could negotiate foranything above that.

Mr. Griffin.

What factor did you take into account in determining what rate?

Mr. Palmer.

These houses had already been rated prior to my coming into office here, and I didn't feel that there was any necessity of reevaluating them.

Mr. Griffin.

I didn't mean you in particular, but what are the standards of giving new ratings in AGVA?

Mr. Palmer.

There is controversy. I rate them primarily on seating capacity, cover charge, and type of show budget. It has not been delineated clearly in any of the offices.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Jack Ruby complain to you about the amateur nights that the Weinsteins were running?

Mr. Palmer.

Continuously. He stated that he didn't like to run them himself, but he had to in order to meet the competition. The other two brothers, the same thing.

Mr. Griffin.

What did Jack ask you to do?

Mr. Palmer.

He was constantly trying to have them disallowed by AGVA. According to the first directive I received in office, they were to be immediately discontinued.
However, I believe it was Abe Weinstein's conversation, either in person or by phone I have forgotten which-- I had both with Irving Mazzie, that they were allowed to continue until clarification of the amateur shows could be had. I was instructed to allow them to continue. It was not indicated that it should be just simply for the Weinsteins, but also for Jack Ruby, and any other club that might be in my territory. I believe there was a club in Oklahoma that was also contemplating it. At that time there became an upset in our executive offices, and it was not clear to the people taking over whether they should adhere to the previous policies.

Mr. Griffin.

When did this first order come out that ,there was to he no amateur nights?

Mr. Palmer.

In October, I believe it was, originally.

Mr. Griffin.

Of 1963 or 1962?

Mr. Palmer.

1962.

Mr. Griffin.

1962?

Mr. Palmer.

I believe that is when I first received the letter indicating it was to all club owners.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Jack Ruby discontinue amateur night at any time, to your knowledge?

Mr. Palmer.

Yes; prior to my, well, unpleasantness, he began a series of dishes, giving away dishes Thursday and hi-fi's and everything else, and had discontinued his amateur nights, and made quite a thing that he was complying wholeheartedly. But it took him almost 4 or 5 months to get around to complying.

Mr. Griffin.

Was he still complying in November of 1963?

Mr. Palmer.

Yes; I believe, to the best of my knowledge, he was.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall in November of 1963 that Jack was attempting to persuade AGVA to terminate the amateur shows at the Weinstein club?

Mr. Palmer.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you tell us about what he did?