Mr. Griffin.

I see. Now, when you saw this in the news, did that bring to you a recollection that someone had also told you this independently?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't recall it doing so; no.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, is it possible that the recollection that you are giving us here is simply something that you really didn't hear anybody tell you but that you just read in the newspapers?

Mr. Crafard.

It could be that it is mixed up in my own mind about the fact that it come out that way, but I wouldn't know for sure.

Mr. Griffin.

You are not sure now whether you independently remember somebody telling you this or whether you just read about it in the newspaper, and now are confused as to whether your source is from somebody telling you or from the newspaper?

Mr. Crafard.

I am almost positive that the statement was made to me by a person, but it could have been that, like I say it could have been, after I left Dallas, after it came out that Ruby had shot Oswald, somebody had heard the statement over the television or read it in the newspapers themselves, and made the statement to me that they had heard that he had been in the club.

Mr. Hubert.

I come back to the point I made a little while ago, and I would like you to consider it again because apparently, as you say, you have not given this matter a great deal of thought up until now. I suggest to you again that your reaction when you heard it would have been quite different if you had heard that rumor about Oswald being in the club before Ruby shot Oswald than it would have been if you had heard it after he shot him.

Mr. Crafard.

I believe so; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Now that reaction of yours is, I think, the key to your recollection of it, and I suggest that you put your mind to it, Larry, to see what--to have a recollection, if you can, which is true, of course, but which will reflect what your reaction was. It has got to be a different reaction between the two, and I think you have agreed with me on that.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; I do. I believe that--I am not sure whether it was hearing a statement there when it was made to me or hearing it over the television or something like that. It was something about the statement where I said that if he had been I didn't know about it, and I didn't believe Jack did either or something of that effect.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, now, you are telling us then that at the time you heard this you made a comment?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; I believe so.

Mr. Hubert.

You made a comment to the person who told you that Oswald had been in the club?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe so; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And at the same time you made that comment that you hadn't seen Oswald in the club, you said you didn't believe that Ruby did it?

Mr. Crafard.

I didn't believe that Ruby had saw him in the club.

Mr. Hubert.

That must have been then after Ruby was involved?

Mr. Crafard.

It must have been; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

That would put it after Monday morning, November 25?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

So, according to that it couldn't have been before you left Dallas?

Mr. Crafard.

According to that; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

But do you still, in light of that do you still, have the recollection that you did hear it before you left Dallas?

Mr. Crafard.

I am not sure.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask you this, Larry: If you had heard this before you left Dallas, was your feeling nevertheless about Ruby's insanity or state of mind so strong at the point when you learned that Ruby shot Oswald that you would have regarded such a statement as being of minimal importance or was your initial reaction to Ruby's having shot Oswald a sort of quizzical one in which you really hadn't made up your mind about the man?

Mr. Crafard.

My original reaction when I first heard about it was the fact I couldn't really believe that he had done it. I just couldn't believe, I couldn't make myself believe, that Jack had done it.