Mr. Ruby.

I've already told it to the Warren Commission?

Mr. Tonahill.

Well, go ahead.

Mr. Ruby.

As I left the Western Union, I walked toward the ramp, and as I walked down, Lieutenant Pierce's car was parked already on the curb, partly on the curb and partly some of it was on the ramp, and some officer was talking to him, so consequently--I don't know how to answer that--whether I was in the basement--when his car had driven out?

Mr. Specter.

Did you walk by his car?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Specter.

At the same time it was parked there?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Specter.

So that the officer did not see you----

Mr. Ruby.

That's correct.

Mr. Specter.

Because the car was parked there?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; and his back was turned to me.

Mr. Specter.

To state it differently, did the presence of the automobile and the fact that he was talking to Lieutenant Pierce obscure the vision of the officer who was on duty guarding that entrance or exit?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; and I walked down because I didn't know they were guarding it--that there was anything going on there, you know?

Mr. Herndon.

Well, with that question, I can see his area of conflict here.

Mr. Tonahill.

What you want to know is was he in the basement, but he was out on the sidewalk. I think that's a straight question.

Mr. Alexander.

"Were you in the basement or were you on the sidewalk when Lieutenant Pierce's car came out?" How about that?

Mr. Herndon.

Yes, I will revise that one question and break it down.

Mr. Tonahill.

Yes, that's a very good question.

Mr. Herndon.

All right, Mr. Ruby, will this question create any problem for you? "Were you on the sidewalk at the time Lieutenant Pierce's car"--I had "drove out" but was he driving out or was he parked there?

Mr. Ruby.

When I noticed him he was already--he was stationary. He was parked. He had stalled there or something.

Mr. Specter.

"Were you on the sidewalk at the time Lieutenant Pierce's car stopped in front of the guard at the exit?"

Mr. Ruby.

Yes, yes. Why do you say "stopped at the exit?

Mr. Tonahill.

At the ramp exit.

Mr. Herndon.

"The ramp exit"--that makes it specific.
Mr. Ruby, your question will then be, "'Were you on the sidewalk at the time Lieutenant Pierce's car stopped on the ramp exit?"

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

Or, would you prefer "at the ramp exit?"

Mr. Ruby.

That's okay.

Mr. Herndon.

Let's leave it "on the ramp exit."
Another question I will ask, "Did you enter the jail by walking through an alleyway?"

Mr. Ruby.

What do you call an alleyway--a ramp?

Mr. Tonahill.

It's a ramp, it isn't an alley. It goes under the building and comes out.

Mr. Specter.

That's all right, we'll stand on that.

Mr. Herndon.

You will stand on that question, Mr. Specter?

Mr. Specter.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

In other words, you can answer that as you want to?

Mr. Tonahill.

Now, if he says "No"----

Mr. Alexander.

It isn't an alley, now, it's a ramp.

Mr. Specter.

Let me specify here--is there another entrance to the jail that you have to go through an alleyway?

Mr. Ruby.

There's another--the Commerce Street entrance, and there's two entrances, and there's ways of coming through, I imagine, from the----

Mr. Tonahill.

But it's a driveway, is what it is, going down.

Mr. Alexander.

There's nothing in the sense that you're thinking of--you could come from the building out where you could go down the ramp on either side.