Mrs. Grant.

hasn't--now, I won't say positive I know Jack hasn't for any reason, unless during this month--this particular month where he was having trouble early in the fall of 1963 with regard to amateur auditions at his club. He had contacted people all over the country trying to find out who knew the bigwigs in the union where the AGVA, you know, the big shots--who they were that run the union.

Mr. Hubert.

Would Benny Barrish be the sort of person who might know something or be able to do something about that?

Mrs. Grant.

Well, he gets around-he knew and knows people in the liquor business that have entertainments in San Francisco--it might be.

Mr. Hubert.

As far as you know, Jack has made no connections out there in anyway for some time?

Mrs. Grant.

In over 12 years---I would swear to this .that he has had no connection out there since before the war and he has never been west of 100 miles of this area in that time. I have many, many times heard where people said he went to Las Vegas. He hasn't been there only once with me and I think that was when we went to--from Los Angeles back and, of course, that must have been in 1937 or 1938, and he has not been back.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see Jack Ruby, your brother, or communicate with him every day, would you say, for a period of 60 to 90 days prior to November 24?

Mrs. Grant.

Every day? I don't say I saw him every day, but I would say I heard him on the phone three to five times.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you be willing to say then that to the best of your knowledge he was not out of the city of Dallas during that period, that is to say----

Mrs. Grant.

Well, wait a minute, didn't he go to New York in August?

Mr. Hubert.

Well, I was going to except August at that point--that's why I put it at 90 days.

Mrs. Grant.

Didn't he go to see a fellow, Joe Glazer, who was the head of a certain union?

Mr. Hubert.

We have evidence that he did go to New York in August, but after that trip--let's put it this way, from September 25 until November 25 just a period of 2 months, can you state to us now that to the best of your knowledge, Jack was not out of the Dallas area?

Mrs. Grant.

I don't remember him going out.

Mr. Hubert.

Specifically, do you have any indication whatsoever of any kind that he might have gone to Las Vegas during this period?

Mrs. Grant.

That--I swear.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, you certainly would have known it if he had been gone, say 3 or 4 days, wouldn't you?

Mrs. Grant.

Well, for one more reason, he would advise me to keep it quiet and to collect the money to see that Andy does this or that.

Mr. Hubert.

And there is nothing to indicate to you whatsoever that he was in Las Vegas during September or October or November of 1963?

Mrs. Grant.

But I know he has made many calls to the same fellow, McWillie. I would say he made at least 10 calls in those 3 months.

Mr. Hubert.

And what would be the reason for those cars?

Mrs. Grant.

The same thing--Willie might know somebody in Las Vegas, since there is that type of entertainment, with these amateurs.

Mr. Hubert.

Did Jack tell you he was calling these various people because of this trouble with the union?

Mrs. Grant.

It seemed to me well, he was so bitter against Barney--I shouldn't say this because---it's just sickening--because they didn't mean to hurt him--Barney and Abe Weinstein and he felt--the union sent him a telegram to quit these amateur auditions and they sent it to Abe and Barney, but they wouldn't quit, but Jack figured they had an "in" with the big guys, you know, and Jack couldn't get to this fellow, and he told me that he called McWillie. In fact, he may have called him even 3 days before that--he was just sick about this.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, was McWillie, and I think you mentioned another person earlier, Lenny Patrick he called?

Mrs. Grant.

Well, Lenny Patrick he called in Chicago--one time, and he was