Mr. Hubert.

I guess we had better break for lunch.

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.
(Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m., the proceeding was recessed.)

Testimony of Curtis Laverne Crafard Resumed

Mr. Griffin.

(The proceeding reconvened at 2:30 p.m.)

Mr. Griffin.

Let me repeat the statement we have been making at the beginning of every one of these sessions, that this is a continuation of the deposition which was begun on Wednesday morning with Mr. Crafard and, of course, you understand, Larry, that the oath which you took at the beginning is still in effect for this deposition.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, before we proceed with the examination of further documents, I might mention for the record that Mr. Crafard and I had lunch this afternoon at Hogates Restaurant and we discussed informally some of his experiences in Dallas and his impressions of the events that have transpired since he first came to Dallas and since he left Dallas, and I might--I am going to raise a few of the topics, and I hope I cover them all. If I have left any of them out, I wish, Larry, that you would clarify the record on it.

I ask you, first of all, if we had a conversation about the homosexual relationship that you had mentioned before of Jack Ruby and George Senator?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And did I ask you whether you felt that Jack and George were involved in a homosexual relationship between themselves?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

What is your view of their relationship?

Mr. Crafard.

My personal opinion is the fact that there was no relationship between the two due to the fact, mostly because of the fact that they did not show the general affection towards each other that two men in this type of relationship would tend to show.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have any questions you would like to ask on that topic, Mr. Hubert?

Mr. Hubert.

Yesterday, you gave us the opinion that you thought both Ruby and Senator were possibly homosexuals.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; I did.

Mr. Hubert.

But your point now is that they might be, but that you didn't perceive anything that would indicate that they practiced homosexuality between themselves?

Mr. Crafard.

That is right. There was, to my opinion, they were both appeared to me to have a homosexual tendency of sorts, but showed no---but it showed no signs that there was a relationship between the two of them in this way.
Hr. HUBERT. All right.

Mr. Griffin.

I think we also discussed whether or not you believed that Jack Ruby was capable of engaging in activities which he would keep secret from other people.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Would you tell us now what your view is about his ability, whether he is the kind of person that could have engaged in that activity?

Mr. Crafard.

From what I knew of his background and what I know of him, I would say definitely that he is the type of person that could engage in an activity of any type without anyone else having any knowledge of it.

Mr. Griffin.

Mr. Hubert, do you want to ask any questions on that?

Mr. Hubert.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

We also discussed at lunch whether or not there you have any recollection of any connection between Ruby and Oswald, and you mentioned to me a statement that you heard made at one time. Would you tell us what that was?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe that was the one I made Just as we got out of the car.

Mr. Griffin.

That is right.