Mr. Griffin.

Were there any other people that you know of who worked in the union with Jack?

Mr. Ruby.

I think my brother Hy worked for a little while in the union.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Sam work in the union?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't think so. I only went there on very rare occasions, very rare. I may have been to one or two meetings in all. I didn't get paid for it either, just, you know, kicks just to hand out the flyers, that is all.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you think of any other people who were involved in the union?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, I know John Martin, he was the president.

Mr. Griffin.

He is the fellow who was killed?

Mr. Ruby.

No; he shot Leon Cooke.

Mr. Griffin.

He shot Leon Cooke. Is John Martin still living?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know. I know there was another fellow but I can't think of his name. There was a fellow by the name---I can't think of their names. They had odd names. Of course, that goes back in the thirties, I think, right in there somewhere. I don't even remember where it was.

Mr. Griffin.

Was Leon Cooke a fellow about your brother's age?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I think so.

Mr. Griffin.

So Jack would have been in the late twenties at the time that he and Leon formed the union?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know. I don't know what year it was even. I don't even remember.

Mr. Griffin.

It was in the late thirties, wasn't it.

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know. I really don't know.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you know of any girls that Jack dated?

Mr. Ruby.

In Chicago?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Ruby.

Offhand not even one because he was, as I said, 4 years older than I was and we didn't run around together. I know of the one he went with in Dallas, which was, I think she was--I don't know if she testified at the trial or not.

Mr. Griffin.

That is Alice Nichols?

Mr. Ruby.

Alice Nichols.

Mr. Griffin.

She is not a Jewish girl, is she?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Did it seem to be Jack's practice to get interested in women who are, what do you call them, shiksas?

Mr. Ruby.

No; I really don't know because I don't know too much. You see he traveled in a different--I am trying to think. When he was going to Marshall High School that is when you usually start going with girls. I don't recall those days because I was too young.

Mr. Griffin.

What I am interested in exploring with you, if you can in a somewhat objective fashion, is some of the contrast between evidence you have shown us with his obsession with the fact that he was a Jew, and other indications that, for example, his dating girls who were gentiles and his living outside of the home away from the Jewish practices which might indicate that he had some desire to escape his Jewish background. Did you see any evidence of that?

Mr. Ruby.

No; that I wouldn't--because believe it or not, when my mother passed away and also my father, you know, we have to go say services, we are supposed to say services for a year every day and I didn't keep it up, but he did.

Mr. Griffin.

Jack went to services after your----

Mr. Ruby.

Mother died.

Mr. Griffin.

Every day?

Mr. Ruby.

Every day as far as I know.

Mr. Griffin.

Where was this temple that he attended services at?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, there was one, I know, up----

Mr. Griffin.

Were these temples in Chicago?

Mr. Ruby.

One was in Chicago, I can't think of the name.