Mr. Ruby.

scale," that was his expression several times and then, of course, he stated, "He is off his rocker."

Mr. Griffin.

Did Mr. Burleson tell you this sort of thing before the trial, or only after the trial?

Mr. Ruby.

Before and during, I would say.

Mr. Griffin.

Right.

Mr. Ruby.

And not so much after, because after we were disgusted, I will tell you that.

Mr. Griffin.

How long before the trial did Mr. Burleson begin to call these problems about involvement with Jews.

Mr. Ruby.

Right after he got involved. Because he lived in Dallas, and he talked to my brother more so than anyone else because he lives there and right after he got into the case, not a few days later, he says, you know, made the statement again, "That your brother has got himself involved with all the Jews on an international scale and he is off his rocker, he doesn't know what he is talking about."
And to be truthful to you I didn't understand his statement. It didn't register with me because they kept saying, Belli said, "Your brother is sick. I have got a patient on my hands, you know. I am trying to take care of your brother, and I can't get across to him."
And my brother, I know, he had many fights because of the Jewish question, of being called, you know, names, referring to his Jewish parents and all that stuff, and, of course, I have been through it myself but he more so, and he fought more about it.
He was always quick tempered and just couldn't take it.

Mr. Griffin.

What other fights did he get involved in because of the Jewish question?

Mr. Ruby.

Many fights. I know on several occasions he came home once with his suit full of blood from downtown.
He was downtown Chicago. I said, "What happened?"
He said, "Somebody called me a dirty Jew or something like that."

Mr. Griffin.

Do you know who he fought with on that occasion?

Mr. Ruby.

No, no; there are many instances that my older brothers and sisters know of because I was younger, 4 years younger and in his teens, early teens, I didn't go with him because 4 years makes a big difference, and I went my way and he went his way.

Mr. Griffin.

How old was Jack at the time that you saw him with this suit full of blood?

Mr. Ruby.

This goes back now, if I recall in 1946, I think, 1946.

Mr. Griffin.

This was after he got out of the service?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes, yes; he told me he had several fights in the service regarding this. He told me he had fights with a professional heavyweight in the service because he said something about the Jews.
My brother was so Jewish conscious that it didn't make any difference whether he said, swore at him for being a Jew or he swore at somebody else a haft a block away. He would get in there and fight right away, you know, unless they apologized and what have you. And he so this, checking into it from what the psychiatrists tell me, he went out of his way to show the gentiles that in their thinking that all the Jews are no good or money grabbers or what have you, here was a nice guy that went out of his way--and didn't have the money--to help anybody he could.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have any examples of this from the period that you worked with him at Earl Products?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, this

Mr. Griffin.

Let's just focus on that for a while.

Mr. Ruby.

He was with me only a short period.

Mr. Griffin.

What examples do you have from that period?

Mr. Ruby.

I know from Earl Products is when he had that fight.

Mr. Griffin.

What else?

Mr. Ruby.

That I know of. Other instances, I can't think of because as I said he went around with an older group of fellows than I did. We didn't run around