Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And have these investigators been paid for their work?

Mr. Ruby.

Not completely.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you know----

Mr. Ruby.

Well, there is a difference of opinion so.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you tell us how much has been paid and how much is claimed as to the total bill?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, the original investigator that we had, I think, we paid him about $5,000 already, plus some expenses of a thousand dollars or so; I don't remember the exact figures, and he claims we owe him $1,500.

Mr. Griffin.

More?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; and there is a little dispute about that.
Now, we have got a new investigator, I don't know his name there. My sister hired him down there and she has given him several hundred dollars, I don't know how much. I don't know how much she gave him.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Mr. Howard get any money?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

How much was he paid?

Mr. Ruby.

I think we paid him, I am not sure of this figure though, $3,500.

Mr. Griffin.

And the remaining funds that have been paid, I take it, have been paid to Mr. Belli?

Mr. Ruby.

Belli got, I think, $11,000, if I am not mistaken. Then we paid the doctors, I don't know, $5,000 or $6,000, you know, the psychiatrists that came down, and some of my expenses came out, just my flight expenses and telephone calls, and who else now?
We gave Burleson some money, he has got, I think, about a thousand dollars that we gave him since the trial. He was supposed to get paid from Belli before. That is the reason we didn't pay him. However, he claimed Belli never gave him anything. And we paid, like George Senator, the witness, our No. 1 witness, we had to give him money to live on because he was so, what shall I say the word for that, well, he lost his job and he was so upset he couldn't, you know, he just couldn't work.
And then we had to pay--he went home and I had to send him airplane fare to come back, you know, and there is----

Mr. Griffin.

How about Larry Crafard, did you pay him any money?

Mr. Ruby.

Larry Crafard, I think we just gave him a few dollars, $5 maybe because he was broke when he was living on the road, he didn't have a dime, so I think I gave him some money.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Larry incidentally contact you any time while you were in Detroit?

Mr. Ruby.

No, no; I wish he would have, because he hitchhiked all the way down there, and I was driving at the same time, but he didn't know I lived there, and we----

Mr. Griffin.

How was he notified to come to the trial?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know. If I remember correctly he came on his own. He just thought that when all this came out about, you know, Jack getting him to take that picture of Earl Warren, he had the camera or something, I forgot the full details myself, but he is the one who took the picture, right, if I am not mistaken, and he just thought he should come down to help Jack as much as he possibly could.
Could I go a little further?

Mr. Griffin.

I don't really want to pry into this unless this is something you care to reveal.

Mr. Ruby.

The most important thing is coming up now, I mean one of the most important things.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. I do want to reflect this---that I don't want to push you into saying things, talking about subjects that you would rather not talk about, and I realize that this in one of them. Now, if you do want to say something about it why, of course, we would be happy to hear anything you want to say.

Mr. Ruby.

Well, I returned home, I went from L.A. to Dallas, I talked to Jack, I talked to Howard. We hadn't hired Belli yet. He was going to go