Mr. Ruby.

No; the answers were it is not their policy, and there was another reason, I can't remember the exact words. I don't recall. But Mike Levin did most of that, you know--the lawyer--he did most of the calling and he told me, but I don't remember the exact words and I would rather not say--you know, if I am not sure of the exact words.

Mr. Griffin.

I don't want you to say if you didn't hear it.

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you keep the records for that defense committee fund?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; most--yes; I would say yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have those records here with you today?

Mr. Ruby.

No; I gave them to an agent, though. I gave them to an agent some time ago. I gave him a list of all the monies that came in, and I think I even gave him a list of who I paid it out to.

Mr. Griffin.

What is your best estimate of how much money came in altogether in the defense committee fund?

Mr. Ruby.

Now you are not talking about the story--right

Mr. Griffin.

That is right.

Mr. Ruby.

From the defense committee fund between $1,500 and $2,000, altogether.

Mr. Griffin.

What were the expenses of the fund or is this excuse me---is this $1,500 or $2,000--is that a net figure or a gross figure?

Mr. Ruby.

That is a gross.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. After expenses, what was ultimately left for the application to the defense?

Mr. Ruby.

I can't give you an exact figure because I just can't recall all of the expenses we had, because I just paid a bill last week, and I just don't have it, but I would say we spent probably close to a thousand dollars, because one ad alone was close to $300, and the letter was another $300---is $600 already that I can think of. There were other, smaller expenses.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you know what the total expenses were that have been for the defense of your brother so far?

Mr. Ruby.

In the low thirties. Of course, you must understand we are continually spending money, so I don't have it.

Mr. Griffin.

Have you been given an estimate recently as to what the total expenses of the defense of your brother is going to be?

Mr. Ruby.

An estimate?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Ruby.

You mean if it goes to the Supreme Court and all that?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes; have you been given any estimate as to what the total expenses might be.

Mr. Ruby.

No; I would say no. Just said it would run into a lot of money but no figure was ever actually quoted, except by Belli.
You see, he really didn't, either. He just--I am trying to think what his statement was, now. No; he didn't either, because at that time we weren't talking about Supreme Court, we were only talking about--you know--the first trial.

Mr. Griffin.

What was his----

Mr. Ruby.

He mentioned between $75,000 and $100,000.

Mr. Griffin.

As a total cost.

Mr. Ruby.

Of the first trial. And that is now his fee and everything, when you are talking expenses. I am talking everything they wanted.

Mr. Griffin.

How much of a fee did he quote to you at that time?

Mr. Ruby.

He was talking about $50,000, if I recall correctly.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he quote it to you personally or is this a figure you have learned from somebody else?

Mr. Ruby.

No; he quoted it to me.

Mr. Griffin.

Now how much----

Mr. Ruby.

In other words, it wasn't a definite figure. He said it could be around, you know.

Mr. Griffin.

Have the costs of the investigation for the defense been paid to date?

Mr. Ruby.

What do you mean by investigations?

Mr. Griffin.

Did the defense hire investigators?