Mr. Ruby.

he closed the Chicago office and moved back to California. So, anyhow, I called Mike.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask you another question. From what you have said, I take it that Mike Shore first had contacted your brother Jack or somebody in Dallas?

Mr. Ruby.

No, no, no.

Mr. Griffin.

Jack told you to call Mike Shore?

Mr. Ruby.

Right.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, had Shore. contacted Jack or what gave Jack the idea of suggesting that you call Shore?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, Jack knew that I knew Mike Shore, and he was, you know--he had been in advertising, was the only one we knew that could give us any advice as to what to do.

Mr. Griffin.

Had Jack had someone approach him in connection with a life story or something like that?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; he said several people were trying to contact him through Howard and wanted a life story.

Mr. Griffin.

The first you heard about this, though, was when Jack called you and asked you to contact Mike Shore?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; as far as I know. Now, wait--I don't know if he talked to me or he talked to one of the members of the family, because we had so many telephone calls from those first few days I can't recall all of them. But, anyhow, the word came to me to call Mike Shore and ask his advice.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, do you recall how long after Oswald was shot that this call of yours took place?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, just a day or two later, I think.

Mr. Griffin.

And I take it you did call Mike Shore?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I did.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you call him in California?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I called him in California.

Mr. Griffin.

And about how long did your conversation with Shore last?

Mr. Ruby.

Several minutes.

Mr. Griffin.

Ten or fifteen minutes?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know. I really don't know. Anyhow, I don't remember.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, tell us what that conversation was.

Mr. Ruby.

Well, I mentioned that Jack had said that people were interested in a story on Jack and Jack had said to contact him, ask his advice. And so he says, "Gee, that is a coincidence," he says, "because I've got somebody sitting right here in my office that would be the perfect man to do a story on Jack if one is going to be done." And he says, "His name is Billy Woodfield." His real name is William Woodfield. So he says, "I think you ought to come out here," the conversation got to that, "so we can talk it over."

So I flew out there a day or two later.

Mr. Griffin.

Was that all there was to the conversation at that time?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; lawyers weren't mentioned yet as far as I remember. I don't think we mentioned the lawyer in the first conversation.

Mr. Griffin.

Had you discussed with your family or with Tom Howard before you called Mike Shore----

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

What had been your discussion about selling the life story with your family and with Tom Howard?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, the question came up that we would need money for a good lawyer, and this was one of the solutions to raising money.

Mr. Griffin.

Before you called Mike Shore, are you saying that you had discussed getting a lawyer other than Tom Howard, or when you use the term good lawyer are you talking about paying Howard?

Mr. Ruby.

No; we were talking about a lawyer other than Howard now.

Mr. Griffin.

Who had suggested that you should get a lawyer other than Howard or how did that idea arise?

Mr. Ruby.

That was, I think, between our family, the family itself.

Mr. Griffin.

And did you discuss this with Howard before you called Mike Shore?