Mr. Ruby.

similar to the design of your license plate, but we would put the children's name on it, like John Jones, and they would fasten it to the back of their bicycle or their wagon or what have you. This was a box top deal item that we used, Armour's Meats used it several years ago. They send in a box top from Armour's franks with 25 cents, and you get the plate, things like that.

Mr. Griffin.

You say you held the dies on it?

Mr. Ruby.

I own them.

Mr. Griffin.

You own the dies, but you were going to have somebody else manufacture them?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes, I did, because it didn't pay for me to set up to make 100 plates, because it just wasn't worth it, you know.

Mr. Griffin.

Who did the manufacturing?

Mr. Ruby.

Dixie.

Mr. Griffin.

Is this your brother-in-law's company?

Mr. Ruby.

Who?

Mr. Griffin.

Dixie?

Mr. Ruby.

Dixie, no; that is just some people I never even met, but I knew that they made a very similar plate, exactly the same size but slightly different in design, and that I could substitute this for mine. Actually, his was a better plate. -It was made out of aluminum, which I did. And so that it wasn't necessary for me to go through all the bother and expense to set up my operation to make the plate.

Mr. Griffin.

That is the Dixie Seal and Stamp Co.?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

In Atlanta?

Mr. Ruby.

Right.

Mr. Griffin.

Now the Berger Products Co. is in Philadelphia.

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, Berger Products. They made a plate, and the reason I called them, I have got to go back. When I sold my company, Earl Products, the fellow I sold it to couldn't pay me all the money. So we made a new deal. He gave me some money and some of the operation back. That is how I got back the camera and the nameplate. Berger is also in the nameplate manufacturing business, and I wanted to sell him the nameplate business if I could. That is why I called him. Now I know. It is Philadelphia. That must be the Berger Co.

Mr. Griffin.

Now did Mr. Hubert ask you if you knew anybody at the Mar-Din Co.?

Mr. Ruby.

No; he didn't ask me that. Yes; I know those people.

Mr. Griffin.

How do you happen to know them?

Mr. Ruby.

They were one of our best accounts years ago when I first got into manufacturing.

Mr. Griffin.

This was in the Earl Products?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; the Earl Products Co.

Mr. Griffin.

What sort of things did they purchase from you?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, they purchased aluminum salt and pepper shaker sets. That was the main item. And then they also purchased some hammer and screwdriver sets, because at that time I was manufacturing those, too.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you deal with these people while your brother Jack was connected with Earl Products?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And did Jack know these people?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

What does the Mar-Din Co. do?

Mr. Ruby.

They are distributors of general merchandise, I would say.

Mr. Griffin.

Do they do any manufacturing that you know of?

Mr. Ruby.

No; I don't thing so, not that I know of.

Mr. Griffin.

What is the nature of their distribution? Is it mail order or direct sale?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, it is both. I think some mail order and they have salesmen, which would mean direct.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember talking with Jack, your brother Jack, about

the Mar-Din Co. at anytime last year?