Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I think when he was talking about--I am not sure now, but I think that he brought up their name when he was talking to me about going into the manufacture of the twistboard, and he thought they would be a very good outlet.

Mr. Griffin.

And do you recall what you suggested to him?

Mr. Ruby.

No; I am not even sure of that. I can't remember a conversation that took place.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember receiving any telephone calls from Jack in the month of November before the episode down in Dallas?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; we talked about the twistboard.

Mr. Griffin.

How many calls do you recall receiving from him?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, at least three or four, I think.

Mr. Griffin.

And were they all in connection with the twistboard?

Mr. Ruby.

As far as I know; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

I want to ask you to try to reflect on these calls and see if we can't discuss them one by one. If you can, try to think about the first time he called you and the next time, and so forth, so that we can ascertain how your dealings with him progressed?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, I think the first conversation was probably to the effect that he had a good item, and he was going to send me one, and he told me something about it, it is a terrific item, and he wants to get into the manufacture of it, if he could.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he send you one of them?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; he did. In fact he sent me, I think he sent me a half dozen. No; the first time he only sent me two, and then when I was down in Dallas, you know, for the trial and so forth, I brought back a haft dozen for my kids, and so on.

Mr. Griffin.

I take it that you were interested then in the project?

Mr. Ruby.

No; not for myself. He wanted me to see if I could locate people to make the parts at the least possible cost. He wanted to get into the manufacture in Dallas, and he mentioned to me, because I was trying to discourage him, because first of all he don't know too much about manufacturing, and to set up for one item, which I didn't think was such a tremendous item, I thought was a little bit ridiculous. And then he said that he would have the Goodwill organization assemble it for him. I don't know if you are familiar with their complete operation, but they will assemble items for you at a very reasonable rate.

Mr. Griffin.

This is Goodwill Industries?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And was that going to be done in Dallas?

Mr. Ruby.

In Dallas. So then he sent me the sample, and somehow I think this Triangle manufacturing came up. He may have mentioned it. I am not sure because I don't remember every word of the conversation going back that far. I think I called Triangle, if that is their name. I am not even sure of that. He called me and he said, he might have said, "call them and see what you can do." Anyhow, I contacted a couple of people in Detroit that I thought might know something about the twistboard, because he told me it was so tremendous in Dallas I figured it's got to be known here in Detroit, although I had never even seen it. So I asked--I happened to call a fellow that is a salesman for toys and novelties and things of that sort.

Mr. Griffin.

Who was that?

Mr. Ruby.

I can't even think. I know his first name is Henry, I can't even think of his last name, and he said it is a flop, it is a dead item here. They tried it and it didn't go over. So I think in one of the conversations I no doubt told Jack that, and anyhow I got a sample and I think it was of this part that we needed, the bearing part for this twistboard. Maybe I had better describe it. It is a little board, fiberboard about 12 inches square and it sets on a bearing like, and the bearing has another piece of press wood under it, and if you stand on it and you twist, you twist around. That is what the item was. And I couldn't see it, especially it was selling for $3. I couldn't see it. I just didn't think anything of it.

Mr. Griffin.

I take it Jack was enthusiastic about it?